I would like a Calvinist to walk through this text out of Romans 11 with me and explain how you come to your conclusions. We have two groups introduced in verse 7: 1. The Elect 2. The Rest who were hardened. Questions: What does Paul believe about these two groups? What will happen to them? What does the "Olive Tree" represent? What does it mean to be cut off or grafted into that tree? 7 What then? Israel did not find what it was looking for, but the elect did find it. The rest were hardened, 8 as it is written: God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that cannot see and ears that cannot hear, to this day . 9 And David says: Let their feasting become a snare and a trap, a pitfall and a retribution to them. 10 Let their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent continually. 11 I ask, then, have they stumbled so as to fall? Absolutely not! On the contrary, by their stumbling, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel jealous. 12 Now if their stumbling brings riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full number bring! 13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. In view of the fact that I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if I can somehow make my own people jealous and save some of them. 15 For if their being rejected is world reconciliation, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? 16 Now if the firstfruits offered up are holy, so is the whole batch. And if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 Now if some of the branches were broken off, and you, though a wild olive branch, were grafted in among them, and have come to share in the rich root of the cultivated olive tree, 18 do not brag that you are better than those branches. But if you do brag-you do not sustain the root, but the root sustains you. 19 Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." 20 True enough; they were broken off by unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you either. 22 Therefore, consider God's kindness and severity: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness toward you-if you remain in His kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not remain in unbelief, will be grafted in, because God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut off from your native wild olive, and against nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these-the natural branches-be grafted into their own olive tree? 25 So that you will not be conceited, brothers, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery: a partial hardening has come to Israel until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. NOTE: I don't want to banter with a bunch of silly comments or personal attacks. PLEASE, lets keep this thread on topic and discuss the actual text and the direct implications of this passage. I will treat you with respect and will expect the same in return, but I'm only interested in discussing this with someone who really wants to discuss scripture in order to really understand the original intent. Thank you.