ANY Difference Between The Bible being Inerrant Or Infallable?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, Mar 9, 2011.

  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    Do theey mean same thing?
    Must one believe in Bible in that way to be saved?
    What is "traditional" baptist view on them relating to Bible?
     
  2. Skandelon

    Skandelon
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    9,638
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think it is all in how the words are used. For example, one might say, "The bible is infallible in accomplishing its intent." or "The original manuscripts are inerrant."

    My issue with this discussion is this: Why is it that we as Baptist believers (even the most fundamental and strict adherents to complete scriptural inerrancy among us) are fine with accepting the truth that God has chosen imperfect vessels such as David (an adulterous murder) and Saul (a assassin of believers) to carry his message to the world; but, cannot seem to fathom the possibility that God might choose a less than perfect book to carry that same message?

    Like these imperfect messenger's purpose, the purpose of the scripture is to introduce us to Jesus through whom we can find an abiding relationship with God and eternal life in heaven. The messengers and the scripture they record serve that purpose quite perfectly as long as we don't resort to worshipping the book over its divine author.
     
  3. Osage Bluestem

    Osage Bluestem
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    0
    The bible is breathed of God therefore it is inerrant and infallible.

    God's word is perfect and will accomplish his purpose. Scripture prepares the man of God for every good work.

    Isaiah 55:10-11 ESV
    10 "For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven
    and do not return there but water the earth,
    making it bring forth and sprout,
    giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater,
    11so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth;
    it shall not return to me empty,
    but it shall accomplish that which I purpose,
    and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.

    2 Timothy 3:16-17 ESV
    16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
     
  4. Jkdbuck76

    Jkdbuck76
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,262
    Likes Received:
    64
    Adam was God breathed too, I think. And he wasn't perfect.

    But the Bible has human authorship as well. And it was not dictated, either.

    I am saying that I do not know whether or not it is infallible and inerrant.
    EDIT: B/C I don't really know what infallible and inerrant mean.

    I am saying that I know humans wrote it with the guidance of the Holy Spirit....God breathed out the scriptures.
     
    #4 Jkdbuck76, Mar 9, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 9, 2011
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,377
    Likes Received:
    728
  6. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,649
    Likes Received:
    187
    So, in essence, a person must believe they do NOT have an inerrant Bible today since we don't have the original autographs today. You are insisting upon a certain belief regarding something we do not have.

    If it was so important for the original autographs to have no error (inerrant), why didn't God preserve His word inerrantly? (This is the place where I agree with the King James Ony line of reasoning.)

    Although it is counter-intuitive, I think inerrancy actually undermines trust in the scriptures. I think a more biblical way of looking at scripture is to affirm the infallibility of scripture. The scripture effectively provides revelation of God to us and is the objective authority for faith and practice.

    (Just so no one tries to make the old, tired argument, I DO NOT believe the Bible is full of errors. In fact, I think the Bible is extremely reliable in its present form in a multitude of faithful translations.)
     
  7. Osage Bluestem

    Osage Bluestem
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    0
    Read the chicago statement on biblical inerrancy.

    http://www.bible-researcher.com/chicago1.html
     
  8. jbh28

    jbh28
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    3,761
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is preserved, but what we are speaking of is a perfect translation. There are no 2 manuscripts that are alike. So textually, there are flaws in the individual manuscripts. Translations are not inerrant.
     
  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,377
    Likes Received:
    728
    God is going to judge people according to His word.I am certain He has preserved what we need to make us wise unto salvation. manuscripts, textual variants, translations aside, we have what we need.
     
  10. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,649
    Likes Received:
    187
    Actually, no. As you state below, the manuscripts vary, but the meaning and doctrines are unaffected.

    Therefore we don't have perfect copies of the originals.

    I never claimed they were.
     
  11. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,649
    Likes Received:
    187
    Yes. Absolutely.
     
  12. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Webster claims both words are exact parallels.

    God breathed out His exact Words. We actually HAVE these exact Words preserved today and they are without error/incapable of error.

    I distinguish inerrant as to getting the revelation (we got them without a single error, missing word, addition, interjection, etc) and infallible as to effect/fulfillment of the revelation (they cannot fail, be mistaken)

    The issue we have is that men in copying have added/changed some of those exact Words so that we have 5500+ documents and no two agree. We must compile them all, examine differences, see how the changes evolved over history (copies of copies of copies in pre-xerox days was fraught with error), then ascertain the blend of texts to one reflected the originals.

    BTW, we don't have the original autographs written in the hand of Paul or John for a reason. They would be under glass, offered prayers to, worshiped, paraded thru cathedrals, etc Man worships the creation, not the Creator (Rom 1)
     
  13. jbh28

    jbh28
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    3,761
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would agree

    In referring to a particular copy, correct. though I do believe all the words are still preserved in the total of the manuscripts.

    Good. you made reference to agreeing with the kjvo, so I was confused. Glad to hear that you don't!
     
  14. stilllearning

    stilllearning
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,814
    Likes Received:
    2
    Hello JesusFan ...... and welcome to the BB.

    I am also “a Jesus fanatic”.

    Both Inerrant are Infallible, describe the Bible.....
    “Inerrant” (Containing no mistakes:)
    “Infallible” (Incapable of error:)
    --------------------------------------------------
    But be warned, of the way this truth is being attacked.

    Many will say, “Yes the Bible is Inerrant and Infallible, but only in it’s original form”.
    This is a copout, because the original manuscripts no longer exist and even if they did, the vast majority of people on Earth, couldn’t read them.

    Part of having faith in the Infallibility of the Bible, is believing that God was able to perfectly preserve His Word in other languages.

    Unfortunately, fewer and fewer “believers”, continue to believe this truth, thus when the Lord Jesus was talking about the last days, he asked......
    Luke 18:8
    “I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?”

    --------------------------------------------------
    Indeed “faith” is under attack; Therefore Satan’s number one target is the Bible, because this is how we grow our faith........
    Romans 10:17
    “So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”



    Have a great day
     
  15. Ron Wood

    Ron Wood
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2011
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    0
    Arguing over the inerrancy and infallabily of the Bible is foolishness. Either it is and we cantrust it or it isn't and we can't. All believers know that it is and they trust their souls to that fact.

    Satan's number one target isn't the Bible it is the pulpit.
     
  16. Skandelon

    Skandelon
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    9,638
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why is it that we as Baptist believers (even the most fundamental and strict adherents to complete scriptural inerrancy among us) are fine with accepting the truth that God has chosen imperfect vessels such as David (an adulterous murder) and Saul (a assassin of believers) to carry his message to the world; but, cannot seem to fathom the possibility that God might choose a less than perfect book to carry that same message?

    Like these imperfect messenger's purpose, the purpose of the scripture is to introduce us to Jesus through whom we can find an abiding relationship with God and eternal life in heaven. The messengers and the scripture they record serve that purpose quite perfectly as long as we don't resort to worshipping the book over its divine author.
     
  17. Ron Wood

    Ron Wood
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2011
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    0
    Because we trust our souls to the truth of the Scriptures. We do not trust our souls to the infallability of the men who wrote it or preach it. If the Scriptures are imperfect then we have no basis to believe anything God says or promises. We do not worship the book, mine has pages falling out and is coming apart at the seams, but we do worship the God of the Book.
     
  18. Skandelon

    Skandelon
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    9,638
    Likes Received:
    0
    We trust our souls to Christ, to which the scriptures testify.

    What is it they wrote?

    I disagree. They are perfect in accomplishing what they intend to accomplish; to introduce us to an abiding relationship with our Creator. Our faith in God is not so shallow and weak that translation, transcription and few small factual discrepancies of written scriptures can somehow discredit or undermine that faith.

    Good to hear. I pray your teaching and beliefs reflect this statement.
     
  19. Ron Wood

    Ron Wood
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2011
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trying to trap me into going against what I said earlier? I am not going to debate this with you. You either believe the Scriptures are the word of God or you don't.


    They are. If they weren't then I wouldn't preach or teach it. I don't preach my opinions I preach the Word. If I don't have it written on my heart by the Spirit I don't preach it. If I don't have understanding or light in it I don't preach it. Those of us who preach are handling things more important than even the President of the US or any other powerful man. We deal with eternal things. We preach to eternity bound sinners and I will not trifle with the souls of men.
     
  20. stilllearning

    stilllearning
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,814
    Likes Received:
    2

    Very well said.
     

Share This Page

Loading...