Any Doctrine Can Be Abused

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by fortytworc, Apr 9, 2012.

  1. fortytworc

    fortytworc
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    One doesn't have to be here at BB very long to see that there are some very firmly held doctrines which are based on varying views and interpretations of Scripture. Many of these bring with them some strong emotions. I think that over time most of us have seen some of our own doctrines abused. It doesn't matter our convictions on them being correct beliefs. What are some ways you have noticed your important, maybe basic doctrines, misapplied, taken too far, or even taken in a totally wrong direction?
     
  2. Yeshua1

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    Think many doctrines go astray when a biblical truth pushed to its 'breaking point", as the entire bible not taking into account!

    example is that faith is a doctrine, but word of faith go way extreme with it, to point of teaching heresy!

    They take isolated verses out of contex, and refuse to see the faith in contex of all verses regarding it!
     
  3. billwald

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    John Calvin taught that proper interpretation is a middle road between extreme vice and extreme virtue. There is something to the old saying, "so heavenly minded that he is no earthly good."
     
  4. Yeshua1

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    yes, would be like those holding to imminent return of jesus to quite our jobs and camp on top of the roof!
     
  5. Amy.G

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    I would like to respond to your posts, but I can't get past the fact that you are here for the 3rd time under a different name having been banned twice. What's up with that??? :confused:
     
  6. fortytworc

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    What I am looking for are some ways you have seen any extremes or abuses which have sprung up from teachings or doctrines which you hold to.
    One of my examples is this: When I first believed on Jesus as my Lord and Savior I was in a Southern Baptist church and was taught 'once saved always saved'. My best friend at the time had been raised Church of Christ with no security of salvation. On my end of it came the idea that 'I can do what I want, confess and ask forgiveness later and be A.O.K.
    I observed from my friends' side a despair and hopelessness that said" What's the use? Hard as I try I am never good enough. I'll never be able to measure up. I might as well do the fun things, and live however I want."
     
  7. matt wade

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    I agree! There are others here that utilize this forum as a place to invade people's personal lives and threaten to call their pastor (multiple times, mentioning the pastor by name, and even threatening to visit the church while in town to personally talk to the pastor), yet those people don't get banned and continue to post and put on their holier than thou routine.

    The moderation and administration of this site leaves much to be desired.
     
  8. fortytworc

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    For the record: fortytworc is not the banned one being referred to here. I have not been banned nor warned. I wondered if the lack of response to this thread on the inclination we have of abusing any doctrine had anything to do with people thinking I had been banned.
     
  9. steaver

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    One day we will all enter heaven with our personal beliefs such as Calvinism or Arminism and OSAS or Not and we might desire of the Lord that He give us confirmation as to whether we got it right or not. And He will say 'what does it matter to you, you are here aren't you? And over there is your brother Calvin and your brother Arminius, why don't you just enjoy yourselves together'. Or He may say 'you sure wasted alot of time on that subject don't you think?'
     
  10. fortytworc

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    John13:35 By this all shall know that you are My disciples, if you agree with each other on major doctrines. I you have the biggest crowd of like beliefs meeting together. If you are 100% correct 100% of the time.
    If you can quote the most scripture verses. If you can find as ANSWER FOR EVERY QUESTION?

    People are in need of His Light shining to show them the Correct Way While we argue over the definitions ""is", use words like 'prevenient', and try to convince them of the type, intensity, and color of our light.
     
  11. billwald

    billwald
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    Follow the money. There is much money to be made by keeping the pot stirred.
     
  12. fortytworc

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    good point. Very accurate I suspect.
     
  13. fortytworc

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    Posted Eight days ago no agreement or examples. Evidently I am the only one who actually saw, heard, experienced any abuse or misuse of an important doctrine at the churches I have been a part of or observed. Everyone please let me know where all of these Very Well Balanced, Mature churches are. With the right, direction, vision, and leadership working in unity by the power of the Holy Spirit; the whole world will be saved!!!
     
  14. HeirofSalvation

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    ....And the Lord will point to the Molinists <----- and say...if you had not believed them, neither would you believe even if one came back from the dead :smilewinkgrin::D
     
  15. Gina B

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    Probably the one that scares me most is when people say that Christ died for all, thus everyone is saved free and clear no matter what. Universal salvation. Everyone can rob and murder and never repent and they're covered. I don't know why they bother taking the time to preach that, seems like no human person would take the hard road if the easy one offers the exact same thing.
     
  16. Moriah

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    Editing to add: I just realized you said people are saved and do not have to repent.

    Do you not know what role Paul played in the death of Stephen? Do you not know that Saul gave murderous threats against the Lord’s disciples? He went to the high priest and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether mean or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. Read Acts 8:1, Acts 9:1-2.

    Read what Paul says... 1 Timothy 1:15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners--of whom I am the worst.

    1 Timothy 1:16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life.

    Read how many times Jesus says "whoever."

    John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's only begotten Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

    John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.

    “Whoever” is whoever. This is plain and simple. Calvinists use special exegesis to twist the scriptures. Whomever in the world believes turns into whomever in the world of believers who believe.

    1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

    Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. This scripture shows that Jesus saves any who come to him in belief; it is a choice of all men, if they only would not love darkness instead of the light.

    God wants all men saved. Read how many times scripture says "all men.

    John 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    1 Timothy2:3-6 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.

    Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.

    1 Timothy 4:10 (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.

    That scripture right there should stop any one from ever misunderstanding and believing Calvinism ever again. How much plainer language does it have to be? "Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.” All men have the chance to obey and believe.
     
    #16 Moriah, Apr 17, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 17, 2012
  17. The Biblicist

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    What you say may have some impact against hyper-calvinism. However, anyone who really understands what you call "calvinism" knows that "whosoever will" is perfectly consistent with it. The argument is not over the will but what controls the will. However, you don't understand the very thing you are trying to counter and so you misrepresent it. The issue is not the will or power of choice. The issue is the heart which impacts the will. If God gives a new heart, the inclination of the will toward righteousness is given as well. Thus, all whom are given a new heart are the "whosoever wills"! You need to learn what the other side really believes before attacking it.
     
  18. Moriah

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    What I say has impact against hyper-Calvinism and all regular Calvinism. Whosoever will is just that whosoever, not whosoever of the saved.
    No, what you say does not change anything about the argument.
    I understand it. Maybe you are denying I understand it because it is some weird defense tactic. In addition, you might not even fully understand Calvinism.
    Again, what you say does not change anything.
    God gives a new heart to believers. God gives a new heart to those who want one.
    LOL…Go read my post again. Did you even read it? You missed this: “Whoever” is whoever. This is plain and simple. Calvinists use special exegesis to twist the scriptures. Whomever in the world believes turns into whomever in the world of believers who believe.
     
  19. The Biblicist

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    The ability to believe is given by God to those whom He has given Christ and that is exactly how Christ explains why some of his own disciples never believed in him in John 6:64-65.

    When God gives a "new" heart it is a believing heart (Ezek. 36:26) which produces a willingness (Ezek. 36:27) as that is the meaning of "cause you" in Ezekiel 26:27 and that is the meaning of "both to will and to do" in Philip. 2:13.

    Jesus never came to call the righteous (Mt. 9:13) but sinners. Salvation is never offered to the righteous but to sinners. God calls the thirsty, the hungry, the burdened and these alone are the "whosoever wills" not the "whosoever will not."

    The internal inclination (the heart) is what must be saved by God as there is none that "seeketh after God, no, not one." God is perfectly righteous and just to allow all who by their very nature "ALWAYS" (Acts 7:51) resist, reject, deny him to go right on their way to hell while having mercy, grace, upon those like Saul of Tarsus who are also seeking to shut the mouths of Christians and persecute Christ and given them a new heart right on the road toward doing their evils n spite of themselves. That you do not understand and apart from God's grace you will never understand it. Salvation is by grace, undeserved, unmerited favor in spite of their hatred, resistance, rejection, and enmity toward God (Rom. 8:7). He simply speaks through the gospel and effectually reveals Himself in a saving way (2 Cor. 4:6) by the power of His own will (James 1:18) and to God be the glory because he has not "chosen" many mighty, nobel, or great men but the outcasts and scum of humanity that he might be glorified in redemption and so it is "OF GOD" that we are "in Christ Jesus" (1 Cor. 1:26-31).
     
    #19 The Biblicist, Apr 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2012
  20. fortytworc

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    Try not. Do or do not. There is no try
     
    #20 fortytworc, Apr 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2012

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