Any Good Baptist History Resources?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Lorelei, Aug 3, 2001.

  1. Lorelei

    Lorelei
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    Ok, all these questions where did, how come, why do we...

    Does anyone know of any good websites, books or other resources on Church and Baptist History? I guess the more I study, I just want to know how we got from there to here. [​IMG]
     
  2. Kiffin

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    HERE ARE MY FAVORITES

    H.C. Vedder, A Short History of The Baptists :cool:

    Robert G. Torbet, A History of The Baptists :cool:

    Leon McBeth, The Baptist Heritage :cool:

    William Estep, The Anabaptist Story :cool:

    BAPTIST HISTORY BOOKS TO AVOID

    (Landmark Propaganda History)
    J.M. Carroll, The Trail of Blood :mad:
    John T. Christian, A History of The Baptists :mad:

    Also a Online Book(A English Separatist Reformed Baptist Propaganda History that is at the opposite end of Landmarkism)

    Chris Traffensted, A Primer on Baptist History: The True Baptist Trail.
    :mad:

    [ August 03, 2001: Message edited by: Kiffin ]
     
  3. DocCas

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    The best Baptist Histories presently in print are:

    <UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>A Concise History of Baptists by Orchard<LI>A History of the Baptists by John T. Christian (two volumes)<LI>The Battle For Baptist History by I. K. Cross<LI>History of the Baptist Church at Hill Cliffe by James Kenworthy[/list]I also highly recommend:<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>The History of the Ancient Vallenses and Albigenses by George Faber<LI>The Ecclesiastical History of the Ancient Churches of Piedmont and of The Albigenses by Peter Allix[/list]Enjoy your reading! [​IMG]

    [ August 03, 2001: Message edited by: Thomas Cassidy ]
     
  4. Lorelei

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    Thanks much I will look for some of these! Please feel free to add to the list too, I am taking these down! [​IMG]

    ~Lorelei
     
  5. ventin

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kiffin:
    HERE ARE MY FAVORITES

    BAPTIST HISTORY BOOKS TO AVOID

    (Landmark Propaganda History)
    J.M. Carroll, The Trail of Blood :mad:
    John T. Christian, A History of The Baptists :mad:

    Also a Online Book(A English Separatist Reformed Baptist Propaganda History that is at the opposite end of Landmarkism)

    Chris Traffensted, A Primer on Baptist History: The True Baptist Trail.
    :mad:

    [ August 03, 2001: Message edited by: Kiffin ]
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    May i know the basis why these books should be avoided?
     
  6. DocCas

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ventin:
    May i know the basis why these books should be avoided?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Fear! Anyone who tells you to avoid a book is afraid of its contents! Read EVERYTHING and make up your own mind. [​IMG]
     
  7. Kiffin

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    Dr C,

    I'm not fearful of the contents of those books but just think they are most useless with no or little benefit to the reader. I don't think you encourage your Church members to read MEIN KAMPF, to learn of race relations or the SATANIC BIBLE to learn about the real Devil or THE BOOK OF MORMON to learn about Jesus Christ or encourage adults to read Marvel or DC comics to increase their Intellect. :D

    To answer the question on a serious matter is that if you want to study Baptist History The Trail of Blood is just a propaganda rag that is not history and is a waste of your time, kinda like reading Jack Chick comic books (It's Mind candy). I will say that on second thought in fairness to John T. Christian that you can find some beneficial history from him but he bends over backwards to feel in the blanks on things when he shouldn't. Like saying the Anabaptists immersed when it is clear from their own mouths they immersed, sprinkled and poured and his ignoring of the Kiffin Manuscript that puts the stake in the heart to Landmarkism.

    THE PRIMER ON BAPTIST HISTORY is the opposite of Landmarkism in that it bends over backwards to dismiss any Anabaptist connection to the Baptists and basically paints Baptists as nothing more than Puritans that immerse. There some beneficial history but nothing you could not get from reading Vedder, Torbet, McBeth, Estepor even Armitage, Ivimey who are all more careful in their historical research. It should be remembered however that History books are not the Bible and all history books will have some error. Even the best.

    [ August 05, 2001: Message edited by: Kiffin ]
     
  8. DocCas

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    "MEIN KAMPF, SATANIC BIBLE, THE BOOK OF MORMON." I have read all three and gained valuable insight into 1, Hitlers rationale, 2, the ugly character of true Satan worship, and, 3, the fallacy of Mormonism. [​IMG]

    But thank you for correcting your blanket dismissal of Christian's works. I too don't agree with all of his inclusions and conclusions, but his writing is nevertheless valuable.
     
  9. Kiffin

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    Agree
     
  10. J.R. Graves

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    Kiffin,

    I am somewhat surprised at your comments about Christian. In my opinion he is the greatest Baptist historian of his day. Even the anti-landmarkers admit his "History of the Baptists" is a 'scholarly' work, at least for a Landmarker - &lt;grin&gt;. I do not think he bends over backward to fill in the gaps. He only shows proofs that some groups praticed and believed Baptist principles. He does not say all the anabaptists immersed, but he does give evidence that a good percentage of them did. Do you know of any statements in his work that have been critized by others?
    As to the Kiffin Manuscript, have you ever read Christian's "Did they Dip" or "Baptist History Vindicted"? I have copies of both. These, especially the last, are his works on the Kiffin Manuscript. These books clearly show that their are multiple copies of the Kiffin Manuscript. If you check Crosby's history, his version is totally different than the version quoted today. It is highly possible that George Gould, a liberal Baptist of the 1850's, edited the Kiffin Manuscript and inserted the controversal statement of "none having so baptized in England". However even if this is in the orignal, it is not the end of Landmarkism. Elijah though he was the only one in Israel that had not bowed his kneel to Baal. God told him there were 7,000 others.

    Just some things for you to think about.

    Your friend in Christ,

    Ben
     
  11. Ingo Breuer

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    I am originally from Germany. I grew up in an area that is almost completely Roman Catholic, but I found out about some faithful Baptist believers who lived there a long time ago and were severely persecuted.
    You can read the full account about the Baptists in the Eifel region of Germany on the Solid Rock of Faith website:

    Baptists in the Eifel

    There is a lot more background information available on this subject. When the US government grants me permission to travel to Germany, I will publish more.
     
  12. rlvaughn

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    Here is a fairly new site with Baptist historical and denominational information.
    Baptist Heritage
     
  13. Clint Kritzer

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    Lorelei- I included many links on my webpage at http://members.truepath.com/fubc/entrypage.html . Just click my homepage icon at the top of this posting. Go to the "officers page" and then to the "historian's corner" and you will find a link. Also the WMU at http://www.wmu.com/ has some very nice links. The Virginia Baptist Historical society at http://www.baptisthistory.org/ has some wonderful resources. Also try the Baptist Heritage Society at http://www.baptisthistory.org/ . You may also try plugging in to the search engine of your choice "Baptist history." You may be surprised at the results. A good book for facts, though a bit dry is "The History of Baptist in Virginia" by Robert Alley. It is out of print but may be at your library. Though geared toward Virginia, it begins with the efforts of Smythe and Helwys when they began the Baptist and Mennonite movements in Holland. PLEASE feel free to e-mail me for further information as this is my passion. -
    Clint Kritzer
    Historian
    Fork Union Baptist Church

    [ October 20, 2001: Message edited by: Clint Kritzer ]
     
  14. TomVols

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    Check out The Baptist Reformationby Dr. Jerry Sutton. Great history of the conservative resurgence in Southern Baptist life.
     
  15. ellis

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    Some resources are good, some are o.k., some are bad. There is a lot of revisionist philosophy out there among Baptists and we seem to have fewer references from the past than many groups, mainly due to our independence, autonomy, lack of connectionalism and other factors which contribute to a more cohesive documentation of history. However, I agree with those who are saying "read them all". If your position is firmly established by verifiable fact, then reading something that is in disagreement with your position will only strengthen your position. If you're not so firm in your facts, well then, you might learn something new. At the very least you will have a broader understanding of what is out there and what is being said and why, and that can only enhance your historical perspective.

    I read the Jerry Sutton book recently, picking it off the shelf of a Lifeway store thinking that it was about something else. I didn't realize that it dealt with the controversy in the SBC, rather than being about the Baptist movement in general. I guess you would have to know a little bit about that struggle to understand a great portion of that book. Not being a Southern Baptist, it was difficult to wade through. I've had to ask some of my Southern Baptist friends from college and one of my professors to put things into perspective for me. So now I am reading Grady Cothen's What Happened to the Southern Baptist Convention?, and it's sequel. Baptist history, even if it isn'd directly related to my own, is quite interesting. However, it requires a LOT of reading, which I love, but whichis time consuming.

    Later I will post a comparison of the two authors for some hopefully informative discussion--informative for me, since most of the history of the SBC is unfamiliar to me.
     
  16. TomVols

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    Ellis,
    You are right. You do have to have a bit of a background in the SBC conservative vs. moderate/liberal controversies in order to fully appreciate Sutton's work. You're doing the right thing, which is what I had to do since I am a relatively new (last 11 years or so) Southern Baptist myself: look at all the viewpoints from each angle and compare in order to find out the factual from the fictional. I also had to weigh the evidence and examples of the professors and pastors I knew and know on both sides of the issue. Doing all of this helped me get to the understanding I have today.

    [ November 15, 2001: Message edited by: TomVols ]
     
  17. Bob Alkire

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    Clint, nothing about Baptist history(maybe my age)but back in the 50's I went to Hargrave Military Academy, and I have played a few football games aganist Fork Union Military Academy, as well as other sports and if I recall correctly, I don't think we had much luck.
    Have a great day and may God richly bless you.
     
  18. DHK

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  19. doodle

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    Hi! :D

    I'm new to this board, and am rather interested in finding out this go here.

    You asked for a good Baptist History website? well here is one I think you'll enjoy.
    http://www.pbministries.org/History/baptist_history.htm

    You'll find some exceptional histories by John T. Christian, J. M. Cramp, C. B. Hassell and more! I'm a bit partial because I am the webmaster, etc. for Providence Baptist Ministries. Our main page is
    http://www.pbministries.org/

    I would invite some feedback as to the usefulness of our material. Dr. Cook and myself have worked extremely hard to bring it thus far.

    In Christ,
    Loyal
     
  20. rlvaughn

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I would invite some feedback as to the usefulness of our material. Dr. Cook and myself have worked extremely hard to bring it thus far.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Just glanced over it briefly and will go back later and look at greater length. But it is a very nice looking site with loads of information :cool: . Thanks for linking it here. Also, WELCOME TO THE BAPTIST BOARD.
     

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