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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, Oct 7, 2011.
As it has been espoused by its followers?
I hold to what is called Lordship. The Bible just calls it salvation.
There is no other salvation than this one;
People invent terms to change what scripture declares.....list 5-10 things that you mean when you say.....LORDSHIP SALVATION:type:.
Basically the belief that one cannot be saved by 'just' faith IF there is no evidence of changed life, good works etc...
'Grey" area is no one seems to know just HOW much of the Lordship of jesus over our lives is enough to evidence really saved!
Some even seem to teach IF one says is saved, yet has continual problem with sin, evidenced NOT really "saving faith!"
This is not what is commonly called Lordship Salvation. I would recommend you pick up a couple of books to read what we believe.
Misconceptions of our theology does not make a good argument against the theology.
Straw man alert
isn't it though one of the sayings that "IF Jesus not Lord over ALL, then He is Lord Over NONE?"
I have read books on this, just seemed to be leaning towards mixing law and grace, as still were not sure as to how much, how long, what works shows "genuine salvation"
Absolutely!!! Jesus called disciples not converts. I wouldn't follow any other model of evangelism. Repentance was a huge part of his presentation. And I would say that bound up in the word "faith" is not some mental acknowledgement but a sincere and extreme conviction about a truth so much so that your life changes to faithfulness (conviction and faithfulness being the 2 primary meaning of the pist- root).
Reread them and if you want, I will recommend some to you. You obviously have a dramatic misunderstanding of our view of both justification and sanctification.
Where there are no works the supposed faith is dead faith.
Jesus stated to love the Lord, thy God, with all thy heart, soul, mind, and strength. God demands all 100% of you, or nothing at all. If that falls under "Lordship salvation", then where is the line for me to get in, so I can sign up??
I do not hold to "Lordship Salvation" as currently taught.
Having said that I openly confess that Jesus Christ is Lord of my llife without reservation except to say that I have often failed Him on my side of salvation.
He however has never failed to give me grace in the time of need and deliver me from my folly.
One more thing, to hold and confess the teaching of "Lordship Salvation" guarantees nothing and here is why:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
We can loudly say with our lips "Lord, Lord" (koine double emphatic) and still be workers of iniquity.
Please feel free to list authors that best reflect your case!
To expand this a little further, Jesus also stated that they praised Him with their lips, but their hearts were far from him.
What I mean by this is that God looks at our heart, and sees what comes from it, and with this evidence, He knows who that heart belongs to, Him or satan. Lordship salvation is not about God being a dictator over our life, but that at the end of our struggles in our sin cursed bodies, we will ultimately surrender to His will.
How do we grow as CHRISTians? By following where He leads. We don't always do what He wants us to, but we will ultimately surrender to His will. Not that He forced us to, but we do know that "Father knows best."
J.C. Ryle's Holiness
John MacArthur's "The Gospel According to Jesus".
James M. Boice, "Christ's Call to Discipleship."
Ken Gentry, "The Lord of the Saved"
Michael Hortin, "Christ the Lord."
I absolutely hold to Lordship salvation. That is the only kind the bible teaches.
I don't believe in Lordship Salvation as per John MacArthur, et. al.
Their proof texts are the same ones that teach discipleship, not salvation.
A new believer is not a disciple; not immediately. He needs to grow in grace and mature before he can come to the place of discipleship--the place that the disciples were at when he spoke to them.
To think that any believer can dislodge THE LORD, as Lord, is absurd.
Christ is Lord of Lords, King of kings. There is nothing you can do about that no matter how disobedient you may be. If you are a Christian Christ is your Lord. I believe in eternal security. I will not lose my salvation. Christ is Lord. He is not going to step off His throne and become a pawn or petty prince just because I disobey Him. Do I control God? Do you really believe that? No! Of course not! No matter what I do, or what any one else does Christ will always remain Lord. Thus the teaching of Lordship salvation is wrong.