Any Theological Significance?

OldRegular · Dec 28, 2004

I wondered how long it would take for someone to start this discussion. It has no theological significance though I see that the pre-tribbers are already busy.

A few numbers on recent earthquakes:

China, 1976, 255,000 dead.
China, 1920, 200,000 dead.
China, 1927, 200,000 dead.
Japan, 1923, 143,000 dead.

KenH · Dec 28, 2004

Good point, OldRegular. Here is a list of natural disasters, mainly within in the past few hundred years. Just think of how many more are not listed from thousands of years ago when there weren't near as many people on the earth as today -

www.scaruffi.com/politics/disaster.html

By the way, I started this thread so that hopefully premillers won't be talking in the Current News forum about how this latest disaster is related to the end of this age, but will talk about it here so I won't be tempted to argue with them and drag threads off topic in the Current News forum.

prophecynut · Dec 28, 2004

Non Baptist

[ December 31, 2004, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]

manchester · Dec 28, 2004

Originally posted by prophecynut:
The generation born when the boundaries of these nations were established will not all pass away before these things are fulfilled. A complete generation or the life span of a king, such as David and Solomon, is 70 years. Adding 70 years to 1948 results in 2018 as the end of this generation when the Son of Man must appear soon in judgment (Mt. 24:30). Many of this generation will have died by 2018, but not all will have passed away
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I think Jesus said that some of the apostles would not pass away before all those things were fulfilled. The generation that would not pass away was the one Jesus was speaking to.

prophecynut · Dec 28, 2004

[ December 31, 2004, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]

Joseph_Botwinick · Dec 28, 2004

Originally posted by prophecynut:
manchester, the apostles not passing away "before they see the son of Man coming in his kingdom' refers to his transfiguration, Mt. 16:28.

Jesus spoke to his disciples on the Temple Mount in 32-33 A.D., I'm sure that generation is dead by now after almost 2,00 years. His Second Coming is yet to happen, Mt. 24:30.
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2“Do you see all these things?” he asked. “I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”
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Did this happen before or after the transfiguration?

4Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,[a]’ and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.
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Did this happen before or after the transfiguration?

9“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
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Did this happen before or after the transfiguration?

15“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel–let the reader understand– 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now–and never to be equaled again. 22If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect–if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.
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Did this happen before or after the transfiguration?

26“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the desert,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29“Immediately after the distress of those days “ ‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[c]

30“At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32“Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.
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Did all of this happen before or after the transfiguration?

33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d]is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
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I think unless you have rejected a literal interpretation of the Bible and are going on some private, personal interpretation, that you are going to have a hard time showing that all these things happened before the transfiguration.

Joseph Botwinick

prophecynut · Dec 28, 2004

[ December 31, 2004, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]

Joseph_Botwinick · Dec 28, 2004

Why not? You are the one who said this was fullfilled at the transfiguration.

Joseph Botwinick

KenH · Dec 28, 2004

I think you checkmated prophecynut, Joseph.

prophecynut · Dec 28, 2004

[ December 31, 2004, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]

Joseph_Botwinick · Dec 28, 2004

So, you are saying that all these things that were listed by Christ occurred before the transfiguration? When was the temple destroyed?

Joseph Botwinick

Joseph_Botwinick · Dec 28, 2004

bump

Joseph_Botwinick · Dec 28, 2004

bump

prophecynut · Dec 28, 2004

[ December 31, 2004, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]

Joseph_Botwinick · Dec 28, 2004

Then please tell me how this prophecy could have been fullfilled at the transfiguration without saying that Jesus was a false prophet. Would you like to revise your interpretation?

Joseph Botwinick

prophecynut · Dec 28, 2004

[ December 31, 2004, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]

prophecynut · Dec 28, 2004

[ December 31, 2004, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]

Joseph_Botwinick · Dec 28, 2004

Originally posted by prophecynut:
First Jesus told some of the Apostles they would see Him coming in his kingdom.

Later some Apostles saw Jesus being transfigured.

After this the Olivet Discource.

Then later in 2 Pet., disciples make reference to the Transfiguration.
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Jesus said all these things would occur before they saw him coming and before the end of the age:

3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
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If all these things did not happen before the transfiguration, then for you to hold that this is the event referred to here is to call Jesus a false prophet. Again, I think you ought to rethink your interpretation.

Joseph Botwinick

KenH · Dec 28, 2004

In other words, prophecynut, you just twist the Scriptures to fit into your theology, regardless of how convoluted your theology is, eh?

prophecynut · Dec 28, 2004

[ December 31, 2004, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]

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