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Anyone going to the CBF general assembly?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Speedpass, Jun 14, 2002.

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  1. Speedpass

    Speedpass Active Member
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    Since Saggy inquired about anyone attending the SBC's annual meeting, I figured I'd get the ball rolling about who would be attending that "other Baptist meeting in June."

    And no, I am not going myself.
     
    #1 Speedpass, Jun 14, 2002
  2. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

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    Won't be going this year. This is a busy month for me, and I'm not really sure I want to see the Texas tail wagging the CBF dog in person.

    Joshua
     
    #2 Rev. Joshua, Jun 14, 2002
  3. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Okay, help us real Baptists here that aren't tied into conventionalism and denominationalism - just what is a CBF general assembly?

    And, if Joshua ISN'T going, then can I go?? [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    #3 Dr. Bob, Jun 14, 2002
  4. rhoneycutt

    rhoneycutt New Member

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    Flying out for a day to visit old friends. Unfortunately can't stay the entire time, have to be at a meeting in Baltimore that Friday afternoon.

    Bob come on down I bet some of my buddies would love you... and you them I think [​IMG]

    Russell
     
    #4 rhoneycutt, Jun 15, 2002
  5. Speedpass

    Speedpass Active Member
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    What do you mean by the "Texas tail wagging the CBF dog" ?
     
    #5 Speedpass, Jun 15, 2002
  6. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    What he means is that the Texas Baptists have a preponderant influence over the CBF, largely because of the BGCT's fractious relationship with the SBC leadership ... and the vast financial resources to be had by catering to the Texans.

    Wow, that sounded pretty cynical, didn't it? It was not meant as a statement of fact but as an explanation that might make sense.
     
    #6 rsr, Jun 15, 2002
  7. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Dr Bob:

    The CBF is roughly the equivalent of the annual Southern Baptist Convention in that it's composed of representatives from around the country who meet to decide general policy on matters such as missions, budget, hiring policies, etc.

    Consider it a church business meeting on a grand scale -- with preaching, workshops, etc. -- and the usual bashing from the SBC leadership.
     
    #7 rsr, Jun 15, 2002
  8. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman Active Member

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    I feel like a real gut laugh at the Texas dog thing. But I can't do it justice on here.

    I haven't ever in my total life been to a SBC Hoopla (Lord only knows I would go for the freebies and the pastor's conference, and maybe the IMB presentation).

    I doubt I would ever make a CBF thing.
     
    #8 SaggyWoman, Jun 15, 2002
  9. Speedpass

    Speedpass Active Member
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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am sure that alot of moderate Baptists will be speaking about SBC missionaries having to sign the BFM as a condition of employment.
     
    #9 Speedpass, Jun 16, 2002
  10. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    That may be true Jimmy. I read in a local state Baptist paper today that out of the over 5,000 SBC International Missionaries, only about 40-50 have resigned over refusal to sign the 2000 BFM. As is typical with the moderate-liberal crowd, this is muchado about nothing.
     
    #10 TomVols, Jun 16, 2002
  11. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

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    Bob, the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship is the network of churches that grew out of the fundamentalist takeover of the Southern Baptist Convention. It is a way for baptist churches to pool resources for missions, theological education, and publication as well as a recognized endorsing body for chaplains.

    Since they have no statement of faith that would be analogous to the SBC Baptist Faith & Message, there is considerable diversity within the CBF. This means that there are some CBF'ers who are stunned by how liberal there peers are, and others who are stunned by how conservative their colleagues are.

    There is also a fairly significant generation gap. The under-40 crowd was not educated in the SBC seminaries and never knew (as adults) a non-fundamentalist SBC. They tend to be more liberal, more ecumenical, and much less interested in denominationalism or anything "Southern Baptist."

    The over forty crowd, and the Texas crowd (which provides the bulk of the money and the leadership) often seem bent on resurrecting the "glory days" of the SBC.

    Joshua
     
    #11 Rev. Joshua, Jun 17, 2002
  12. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Now I'm still confused.

    The SBC just met, elected another conservative president, reaffirmed a conservative doctrinal statement. Know that.

    So the CBF are the moderate/liberals who are unhappy that the SBC is back firmly in control of conservatives (as it has been for 90% of its history). Understand that.

    But what's this about Texas being the big CBF state? Man, I was at First, Dallas, and visited Prestonwood and Euless and some monster SBC churches in the Metroplex . . and they were ALL conservative. I never even met a moderate/liberal in my travels.
     
    #12 Dr. Bob, Jun 17, 2002
  13. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Good point, Joshua. That's why I think there is such resistance to making the CBF a denomination. I think a lot of folks are just sick of the political infighting of the SBC and the last thing they want is to recreate that in the CBF. And the generational differences are pretty plain in that regard.
     
    #13 rsr, Jun 17, 2002
  14. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Dr. Bob:

    Texas is a funny place. First Baptist, Dallas, is a member both of the Baptist General Convention of Texas (which still holds to the 1963 Baptist Faith & Message) and with the competing state body, the Southern Baptist Convention of Texas. It is a linchipin in the conservative network in Texas but is not willing to sever its ties to the traditional BGCT.

    While there are theological differences in Texas, my reading is that the BGCT folks are mostly upset about the politics of the situation and are not willing to cede control to the new SBC leadership, as has happened almost everywhere else. At every chance it has tweaked the SBC leadership and even has threatened to make itself into a denomination -- it has its own seminaries and other facilities -- and has agreed to accept membership from churches outside the state.

    One difference between the SBC and CBF -- which makes it very difficult to judge their comparative strengths -- is that individuals may join the CBF, even if their churches don't. So while a church may align only with the SBC, influential members may be active in the CBF as well.
     
    #14 rsr, Jun 17, 2002
  15. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

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    Bob, in my experience a Texas "moderate" is what we would call a "fundamentalist" here in Atlanta. As RSR has pointed out, the issue for them is far more politics than theology.

    That's why they haven't jumped fully into the CBF bandwagon. They're very uncomfortable with folks like me being in the CBF (and being products of the flagship CBF partner schools), so the BGCT is taking on many of the functions of a denomination. Fer instance, the CBF endorses chaplains, but the BGCT seems concerned that Texas baptists might not fit well into the SBC or the CBF (whose left and right wings - respectively - overlap considerably), so the BGCT endorses chaplains now.

    Joshua

    [ June 17, 2002, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: Rev. Joshua Villines ]
     
    #15 Rev. Joshua, Jun 17, 2002
  16. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Alright now, rsr, I resemble that remark! :D

    BTW, Joshua, I find your comments on the BGCT interesting because Texas has a precedent of a state association/convention operating as a national convention. In 1900, when a large number of Texas Baptists pulled out of the BGCT & SBC and formed the BMAT, they operated as a national organization (even having their own foreign missionaries), until 1924, when, after several years of negotations, they were persuaded to turn their missionaries over to the newly formed American Baptist Association.
     
    #16 rlvaughn, Jun 17, 2002
  17. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    rlvaughn:

    Good to hear from you again.

    Thanks for the information on the other convention. Maybe it's genetic, or something in the water? (See the hobbies forum.)
     
    #17 rsr, Jun 18, 2002
  18. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    By jove, I think he's got it!

    Sorry to be so obtuse. Criswell style was to speak highly of the "beloved Convention and our dear sweet Baylor . . ." (can't you hear him in his white suit senoriously heaping benediction on it?) while at the same time establishing his own college, his own missionaries, his own ministries and giving lip-service and a shekel or two to the Convention's corrupt-ative program. :eek:

    So my view of SBC is skewed. I think of moderates in the SBC as vile liberals (making even Joshua look quasi-normal:p). But I guess they would seem like Bible-believing ifb'ers compared to a typical Lutheran or Methodist! :rolleyes:
     
    #18 Dr. Bob, Jun 18, 2002
  19. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Dr. Bob:

    If only it were that simple ... but you seem to have a grasp on the basics.

    I know Joshua's disdain for "moderates" as being intellectually dishonest. But from my point of view, there are really two types of moderates, which may or may not overlap:

    1. Theological moderates, who are really conservatives or neo-orthodox, and

    2. Political moderates, who may be of any stripe theologically but want room within the convention for a wide range of belief.

    That's why it's hard to judge the moderates; is it theology or politics?

    And that was a pretty cheap shot on the corrupt-ative program. ;)
     
    #19 rsr, Jun 18, 2002
  20. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

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    RSR, I don't think all "moderates" are intellectually dishonest, just most of the seminary-educated clergy who identify themselves that way.

    I do, likewise believe that Texas "moderates" are a whole 'nother category of "moderate" and are probably best left to themselves.

    Consequently I think the term is essentially useless other than as a nice way of saying "not Southern Baptist." That's why I always put it in quotation marks.
     
    #20 Rev. Joshua, Jun 19, 2002
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