Apostles and Prophets

What are the duties of a Apostle?

What are the duties of a Prophet?

MA

 

The Church is worse off because it's dead and has no living water coming out of it! A dead pool as no life in it and cannot give life to others!

JER 2:13 "For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters, And hewn themselves cisterns-broken cisterns that can hold no water.

 

I disagree... The churches are worse off today because they are making eternal salvation their business instead of trusting God!... If you think your eternal salvation or anyone elses is in question you best take a different perspective. We need to PREACH more Jesus Christ and him crucified and less of how man can help him save those THEY feel are headed for HELL!... Then again I'm just one of those hard headed Primitives... Are there Apostles and Prophets Today?... NO!... Only children of God sharing the Gospel with other children of God... Both Jews and Gentiles!... Brother Glen

 

a couple of points:

False apostolic teaching
There is a teaching that has been around for some time that apostles and prophets are not for our time, and that those offices ended around 100 A.D.
What those who parrot this "theology" don't seem to realize is that they are giving an apostolic teaching. That is, they are giving a directive that seems to be related to the Scriptures. What they don't say is WHO the apostle is that first gave this teaching. Their words and extended interpretation that is given does not exist in the Scripture. It is a totally interpretational teaching. Therefore, it is an apostolic teaching. Only an apostle can originally make the claim that the gifts of apostles and prophets are not existent after 100 A.D. And this apostle would give credit to the Lord Jesus or the Holy Spirit for revealing this truth.
So, we have an absence of an apostle speaking this "truth". So, for me, it falls into the camp of false apostolic teachings.

Look in your wallet, and pull out all the counterfeit bills that you have. That's all you have in your wallet, by the way. You only have counterfeit bills in your wallet. Sounds crazy!?
You bet!
It is really crazy for me to say that you only have counterfeit bills in your wallet.
Same as it is to say that their are only false or counterfeit apostles today.
But that is the reality that some have created for themselves. “I say it, so it must be so,” is this kind of theology.
The false and counterfeit PROVES that there are the true. It is impossible to have that which is counterfeit and false if there is not the true. This is reality.
There are ways to tell the false and counterfeit from the true and accurate. But to say that only the false and counterfeit exist is to create a reality that does not exist.

So, are there apostles and prophets today? Of course. There is ONE who sits on the throne. His name is Jesus. And it is He, and He alone who gives apostles and prophets as gifts to the Body of Christ, which is His Bride.

 

Jesus Christ can call any Christian to be an apostle or prophet at any point of time in life even in the current time of life. But blinds ones will not see or know them because they are blind!

 

A title is just that, a title. Anyone can claim to be an apostle, anyone can claim to be a prophet. Don't mean squat, as we put it around here.

The main thing is that many, if not most, self-proclaimed apostles and prophets think that their words are equal to, or supercede, Scripture. Pardon me, but... HOGWASH!!!

No man has the authority to change, alter, manipulate, confuse, or debase the given word of God. Until an individual can show himself to be equal to Jesus Christ (he would have to be, to be in the presence of himself), no one can claim to have the power to declare Scripture merely by speaking or penning words. The very idea that man can declare himself to be the apostle of Jesus Christ is silly.

Men who are called into the ministry, by God, can be looked at as a sort of prophet, but only in the sense of "forth" telling, not "fore" telling. When a man of God stands to deliver the words God has given him, he stands in the place of one crying out the truth of God, not the truth of himself. He has no right to take on the title of apostle or prophet, and should stand quaking with fear if he were to think otherwise.

On what basis can any man claim to be an apostle to this day and time? Unless he is around 2000 years old, I sincerely doubt that he walked with the Lord. Some could point to Paul, but Paul's ministry was endorsed by those who were the true Apostles of Christ.

Spiritual gifts are still in use today, but the terms "apostle" and "prophet" have their own special meanings to the Christian community. "Missionary" and "evangelist" are the contempory terms for what many are claiming. I guess it would be like claiming to be "Messiah", the annointed one, if you were annointed with oil during prayer...not the correct title, no matter what the reasoning behind it.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

Speaking of being scriptural those who reject Apostles and prophets as being alive today also reject the place of Bishops in the body of Christ? ( And don't play around with words and tell me that a bishop is a shepherd, and we have to read the original Greek to find out Bishops don't exist any more, etc! Hogwash!) Yes, there are real Bishops today in Baptist Churches. Check out http://fullgospelbaptist.org/

So how can you say your are biblical? You cannnot because God's word is unchanging:

PHIL 1:1 Paul and Timothy, bondservants of Jesus Christ, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

1TM 3:1 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work.

1TM 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;

TI 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money,

 

See Bob - i actually did a summer series on this - with people who knew less then me - I like preparing studies - and in my preparation - I came to believe that like you missionaries were apostles - but something felt wrong with that

Simply put without going into it much at this time - apostles and prophets exist both in their full function and authority today - subservient to the completed Scripture.

 

Would today's denominational heads fulfill the duties of the Apostle?

 

Assuming the above statement could be true, we have missionaries today who are women? Then apostles could be women? If so how come women are not allowed to be pastors in some Baptist churches? Are they not apostles or sent ones?

Apostle Paul also said the signs of an apostle were accomplished among you with all perseverance, in signs and wonders and mighty deeds. (2 Corinthians) The bible also records 19:11 Now God worked unusual miracles by the hands of Paul, 19:12 so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were brought from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out of them. (Acts)

So could we expect today's pastors to be used by God to work unusual miracles by their hands so that even handkerchiefs or aprons could be brought from their bodies to the sick, and the diseases will leave them and the evil spirits will go out of them? Why not?

Ezekiel 34:1 And the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 34:2 "Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy and say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD to the shepherds: "Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks? 34:3 "You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool; you slaughter the fatlings, but you do not feed the flock. 34:4 "The weak you have not strengthened, nor have you healed those who were sick, nor bound up the broken, nor brought back what was driven away, nor sought what was lost; but with force and cruelty you have ruled them.

 

From the latest Credenda Agenda Journal.....

Modern Apostles
Patch Blakey

Have you ever met an apostle? You know, someone who claims to be like Peter, James, John, or Paul? Maybe you have, and maybe you haven't. I have a friend who was approached by a modern day, self-proclaimed apostle at a conference one summer. Some churches teach the continuing office of apostle, while some Christians, in an attempt to avoid confrontation over the issue, side-step ever so slightly and just say that they are "filling the apostolic function." The implication is that the function is somehow separate from the office, as though one could fulfill the function of an ambassador without being an ambassador. Where's the authority in that? This is like the old George Carlin joke: "You be my name, and I'll be me. When someone knocks at the door, they'll ask for you."

What are we to think of this? The Bible says that the office of apostle is the preeminent office in the Church (speaking of the historical church). "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues" (1 Cor. 12:28; cf. Eph 4:11). The New Testament office of apostle comes ahead of prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers, to list just a few. Thus, a modern day apostle is claiming a great deal of authority.
But is the office of apostle still an active office in the modern church? How would we know? The response will probably depend on whether the respondent believes that the foundation of the church has been laid yet, or if the concrete is still being poured.
Paul says that the apostles played a key role in the church's establishment: "And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone" (Eph. 2:20). Elsewhere, Paul asserts that he has laid the foundation: "According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon" (1 Cor. 3:10). So, it appears that the foundation has been laid already, and that the concrete is about two millennia dry. But while these passages seem to indicate that the office of apostle no longer is required, some may say that they are still not definitive.
What if some were to assert that they have performed the signs that mark them as apostles? Paul indicated this as the case for the Corinthian church, "Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds" (2 Cor. 12:12). But is the performing of signs a sufficient test of someone claiming to be an apostle? Paul indicated that there are false apostles: "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ" (2 Cor. 11:13). How could we distinguish between a true apostle and a false apostle, based on the fact that they both affirm that they have performed the signs that so mark them? This still may not be sufficient evidence to affirm or deny the office of apostle as ongoing today.
But there is one more indicator that we can try, that may be definitive in making this determination. Paul said that all of the apostles have seen the resurrected Lord: "After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles" (1 Cor. 15:7). All we need do is ascertain if our professed modern apostles have seen the risen Lord. If they say they haven't, then they fail the test, and need to apologize for their presumption. But what if they say that they have? Paul seems to indicate that possibly he had a special experience in which he ascended to the third heaven and saw the Lord. "It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one was caught up to the third heaven" (2 Cor. 12:1-2). What if our modern apostle affirms such a singular event in his own life? This is not a science project in which we can go perform a series of repeatable experiments. Do we accept him at his word or not?
If he says that he has seen the Lord, then we know that he is not an apostle, but rather a liar. How do we know this? Because the Bible says so. Paul says there was an end to those who saw the resurrected Lord. And Paul was the last apostle to behold Him. "And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time" (1 Cor. 15:8). What else could Paul possibly mean when he said "last of all" if he did not mean last? The clear testimony of Scripture is that after the Apostle Paul, no one has seen the risen Lord. Any attempt to twist the Scriptures to say otherwise, is to do violence to the text. An apostle must affirm the Scriptures. A denial at this point is fatally telling for a would-be apostle.
The Bible affirms the office of apostle and provides the means of identifying them. Thankfully, it also lays the boundaries of when the apostles labored in their service for the church. There were no apostles after Paul. Modern day apostles must be classified as false apostles.

What do you think about this article?

 

So are you saying that God lied when he said:

1COR 12:28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.

Ephesians 4:11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
4:12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
4:13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
4:14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
4:15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head-Christ-
4:16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

 

No, God didn't lie. He gave them...then. We have the finished work of the apostles and prophets. Almost 2000 years stand as a witness of the closing of the canon. So we should re-open it because somebody says that they are an apostle or prophet?

Sorry. The mormon/moron practice of ongoing revelation sickens me enough without adding to it.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

I believe God's word over the word of any man. So could you please give me a scripture verse that says God has finished with apostles and prophets that he has given to the churhch?

 

I can't. Can you give me one that says the revelation of Scripture is still going on? Or that qualifies one to be called apostle or prophet today?

Who knows...I might meet the criteria...NOT!

In Christ,
Trotter

 

The role of the prophet was NEVER to reveal NEW Scripture, but to REVEAL God's Will within the CURRENT construct of Scripture

That was the forthtelling aspect

The foretelling aspect of the prophet was to reveal God's will within the future construct of Scripture

Both aspects still exist because there is a future construct of Scripture that has already ben revealed - the one where the Bible is no longer necessary, because we will have the eternal physical presence of God


The role of the apostle was simply more then "miter"

because if they were solely "miter" then that role could be filled by evangelist

apostles have this need something only a pastor/shepherd and understand - I cant explain it properly, but while it may involve apostles in missionary settings they are a bridge between the saved and unsaved, and that any well established church strong in doctrine and faith has no need of an apostle - an apostle can train all the gifts even if they dont have it themselves.

 

Your qualification argument is irrelevant and cannot eradicate the word of God! The fact remains that the bible states:

ACTS 11:27 And in these days prophets came from Jerusalem to Antioch.

ACTS 13:1 Now in the church that was at Antioch there were certain prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

ACTS 15:32 Now Judas and Silas, themselves being prophets also, exhorted and strengthened the brethren with many words.

ACTS 21:9 Now this man had four virgin daughters who prophesied.

ACTS 21:10 And as we stayed many days, a certain prophet named Agabus came down from Judea.

ROM 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God

EPH 4:11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,

ROM 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

2TM 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

IF THERE ARE NO MORE APOSTLES OR PROPHETS THAN THERE ARE NO MORE EVANGELISTS,PASTORS OR TEACHERS BECAUSE THEY WERE ALL GIVEN TO THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST.

 

I read a booki recently that told a true story of 2 preachers that did not know each other that happened to be sitting right next to each other on an airplane. When Preacher A ask Preacher B what kind of Church he pastored Pastor B said that He is Assembly of God. Preacher A told Preacher B that he is opposed to what the Assemblies of God Believe and became hostile in his conversation to him. He stated that God only speaks to us today by The Canon of Scripture.
Preacher B did not want to get involved in a argument on the plane but Preaher A just would not let it go. Finally Preacher B looked at preacher A and and said I would like to ask you a question. He ask ,were you called to preach or did you just choose preaching as a profession. Preacher A replied I was called by God.
Preacher B then ask how could you be called by God if God only speaks through The canon of scripture.
Can God only speak to us through the canon?

 

That God only speaks through canon is hogwash and goes against everything that scripture stands for. God is alive and well and He is constantly speaking and His true sheep hear his voice:

Revelation RV 3:20 "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.3:21 "To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.3:22 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." ' "