Featured Apparent contradiction?

We've gone over this before>>>>

As I told you then, I'll tell you now: Pharaoh is an example of one who was blinded in his rebellion from the obvious truth for a time so as for God to accomplish a greater purpose of redemption. Likewise, Israel now is being blinded in their rebellion from the obvious truth for a time so as for God to accomplish a greater purpose of redemption. What is SOOO cool about this is that both acts of judicial hardening, the first with Pharaoh and the second with Israel, lead to the PASSOVER. This is foreshadowing. Pharaoh was judicially hardened to bring about the first passover and Israel was NOW being hardened to bring about the real Passover, thus the context is about the Jews being hardened. It certainly isn't about people being born totally depraved and non-elect, as your application suggests.

The story of the Exodus is a perfect historical narrative that foreshadows what is to come. Jesus is compared to Moses, the one who has come to bring freedom!

You beg the question by presuming the point up for debate. Did God grant them, the Jew, plenty of opportunity to come to Him? Did not God "hold out his hands in mercy to them all day long..." (Rom 10:21), did He not "long to gather them under his wings of salvation...yet they were unwilling???" (Matt. 23:37). For God to temporally seal them in their already rebellious condition so as to accomplish a greater redemptive purpose is certainly just and consistent with His other words and deeds. But to suggest this means God sealed them from birth in their rebellion (total depravity), never choosing to save them (unconditional election), never choosing to atone for them (limited atonement), or never graciously calling them to repentance (irresistible grace), is completely unfounded.

 

Agreed. But not unrelated subjects, for both are examples of God's revelation of himself to man. If man can 'know God' and clearly see, understand and know all that is to be known of God simply through the revelation of creation, how much more can man clearly see, understand and know and respond to the redemptive plan of the gospel appeal? God is successful at revealing himself in both situations.

I never equated them. I compared them. There is a difference.

Yes. I agree. Why wouldn't I?

Again, you misunderstood the point. The point was that if men are able to acknowledge the truth of God through general revelation, thus making them without any excuse for 'trading in [that clearly revealed] truth for a lie," then it certainly bares to reason that men are able to acknowledge the truth of God through special revelation, thus making them without any excuse for 'trading in [the clearly revealed truth of the gospel] for a lie." Understand now?

Amen.

FYI, any objective observer can see right through your "attack the enemy of your enemies to gain public approval and appear objective" methods here. They are quite obvious, but nice try nevertheless. :love2:

 

Right, because God's supernatural work in sending his Son, as God incarnate, to live a perfect life, reveal his plan of redemption, establish his Church, train his apostles, and be crucified, buried and raised to life again, commission his apostles to go into all the world preaching (and recording in scripture) this inspired gospel to 'every creature,' sending down the Holy Spirit like fire to convict the world of sin, establishing his Church full of Holy Spirit indwelled believers, who are likewise commissioned ambassadors sent to make an appeal to all people to be reconciled to God....WELL...that just isn't enough. He needed to do "something else"...something more.

What is that? I know! Let's call it an 'irresistible calling,' by which God's Spirit secretly and inwardly enters a preselected few and changes their hearts to want accept and believe all those other less powerful and effective things mentioned above. :smilewinkgrin:

 

But generally speaking, Calvinism does 'pretend to know men's hearts' and why the reprobates reject Christ's appeals (i.e. Total Depravity). I think that is what Webdog is referring to. The Calvinist appeals to mystery as to why God chooses to save one man over another, but insist that man's choices are determined and thus can be defined.

And how did they do that? By some inward secret working, or did they sit down with them and explain it? The context of that passage reveals the answer...

And who determined it was foolish? Was it because they deemed it foolish that they perish? Doesn't Paul say elsewhere, "They perish because they refused to accept the truth and so be saved?" Or do you believe the gospel is foolish thus causing them to perish? I'm not seeing how this supports your view?

And what means does God use to discern or explain spiritual truth? Doesn't he inspire men like Paul to write carnal believers, like those in Corinth he is addressing, to help them move from the milk to the meat of the Words (3:1-3) so they too can accept the 'deep things of God?' (2:10)

 

It's only inconsistent to those who refuse to acknowledge that the gospel itself is a powerful work of the Spirit.

 

But it was a response, as your remark below proves...

Yes.

See, I affirm the gospel IS a work of the Spirit. The spirit uses the means of the gospel to convict, which is why I said what I did before.

Right, that is because he understands that the Gospel is a powerful, though not irresistible, work of the Spirit. He gives credit where credit is due. The gospel is produced, preserved and carried by the Holy Spirit.

"The words that I speak to you are spirit and truth." - Jesus

 

That's like asking, "Can the book you wrote without you having written it be used to teach others?"

The Gospel IS A WORK of the Holy Spirit. The gospel is the means by which the Holy Spirit has made his appeal to man. It is the means God discerns his desire for all men to come to faith and repentance. It is the "POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION."

 

EXACTLY!!! :applause:

 

Let's reword this statement replacing the word "gospel" with Paul's definition of gospel, shall we?

"Just the power of God for salvation alone, doesn't save."

So, why did he call the gospel the power of God for salvation if it doesn't have the power to save?

How does the Holy Spirit convict the heart? What means, if any, does the Holy Spirit use to convict men's hearts?

I'll give you a clue. It starts with the letter "G" and sound's like "ospel."

Thus the proof that God's gracious Holy Spirit wrought calling is not irresistible. Thanks!