Appearing to fall from the faith or professed faith

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Nicholas25, Jan 10, 2011.

  1. Nicholas25

    Nicholas25
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    Do you know anyone who you thought were born again, only to seem them later live in wicked sin with no apparent remorse, and then see them die in this spiritual condition?
     
  2. Amy.G

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    No. Thank the Lord.

    However I have seen fake Christians.
     
  3. Tater77

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    I see it quite often, no death involved though.


    A teen got saved about a month ago on Wednesday night. After he said his prayer he was talking to myself and the Pastor. The Pastor not 5 minutes after the boy got saved, told him that he needed to tithe 10% of his income. We haven't seen the teen since.


    Its typical around here. People come for a while, get "saved" then they might come 3 more times then thats it. You may never see them again.
     
  4. annsni

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    Having been a believer for most of my life, and having worked in youth ministry, I've seen it far more often that I'd care to. But I know in my heart that I am truly saved and I couldn't EVER walk away from God. My heart is different and I just could never do anything like deny God or turn away from Him. I do believe that those who are truly saved have a new heart and are like me - can not turn away. It doesn't mean that we're perfect and never sin or do stupid things but bottom line is that we could never deny God. But I see those who have done just that and I cannot imagine that anyone indwelt with the Holy Spirit could do such a thing.
     
  5. Thinkingstuff

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    Yes it really bothered. Me. There was this girl I was into back in highschool and we spoke about the Lord. Her parents were missionaries and for me since I was newly born again every discussion I had was about the Lord. It was an exciting time for me. After highschool we reconnected Just after college and she was living with some guy, swore like a sailor, and was totally on board with the extreme liberal agenda. She became universalist in her faith and I was perplexed because she seemed so Christian. Then I noticed how many other missionary kids I grew up with became extremely secular getting drunk, parting, etc... When they had seemed so spiritual and superior to me in the faith. I was distressed to say the least. I wondered about being taken out of God's hand and the nature of our faith.
     
  6. webdog

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    I have, it was my sister. She was a believer, and then got wrapped up with the wrong guy who was involved in occult activities. My sister was never "popular" and never had a boyfriend or anyone of the opposite sex show any interest in her up to that point, so when someone finally did, she fell head over heels for him. She slowly hardened her heart more and more, and fell away hard. God took her life a couple years later at the age of 25.
    I have no question that when she was faithless, He was faithful.
     
  7. preacher4truth

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    We should never say never. Peter said this, and did exactly what he swore he would never do. We know what the Scriptures teach about this.

    Now if we look at this falling away as specifically denying God and His Gospel and His salvation and have another Gospel, or none, and reject all of this as being false and not truth, then these were never truly born-again. I think the Scriptures are clear concerning this.

    As far as if we use this concerning personal sin, in that we get involved in sin, we can see that many of God's people, in OT and NT alike have fallen this way. Thus, the command to depart from iniquity as an NT imperative, and the command to live holy, and perhaps the prodigal son returning to the Father all given to us. Each time we sin, no matter what caliber we think that sin to be, we have fallen away from God.

    Those who depart from God in sin, and never turn back to Him perhaps were never saved. But who's to say? I won't place an indictment on them and say they were never saved. God may have simply taken them home or also still may do so.

    I also believe those who get far from Him will return to Him, some too late. To make a final judgment on all who do this is not my judgment call to make. It is His and His alone. I have known several who have walked away from walking close to God. It happens. I have also seen them return to Him.

    Do any of you say those who have fallen into some sin are then not saved, or were not saved?

    I will do my best to refrain from saying never. Any of us could walk away from God. Don't be proud, remain humble. Sheep by nature stray. I did. God brought me back to Him. I thought this would never happen to me. But God is merciful and gracious and kind and loving. Thank Him for that.
     
    #7 preacher4truth, Jan 11, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2011
  8. freeatlast

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    Yes it is very common. Sometimes it just takes a few hours and other times it can take years, but it does happen. The Lord said that not all who call Him Lord would be saved. If someone who once profess' the Lord turns to practice sin the bible says that they were never saved. It is sad, but like I said it happens far too often.
     
  9. Tom Butler

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    John gives us one criterion. While we cannot truly know one's heart, we can examine the available evidence:

    Even so, I admit to clinging to the hope of salvation for those loved ones of mine who at one time were faithful, but no longer are.

    And I pray that God will beat up on them to bring them back.
     
  10. webdog

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    John, however, warns true believers a few verses up to not love the world. I believe he was speaking of the antichrists in verse 19, those who infiltrated the churches, not true believers who have taken the bait from the father of lies.
     
  11. Grace&Truth

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    So sorry to hear about your sister, it must have been heart breaking for you and your family.

    But, I agree with you. I believe there is not one sin a believer could not do (or continue in).....that is why we are often challenged to walk with God, deny ourselves, yield ourself to God, walk in the Spirit, etc., etc., etc., in His Word. That is the reason for the chasening of the Lord even unto to death in this life, yet, we are still His child and God cannot deny Himself.
     
  12. preacher4truth

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    Well, "these" that departed are qualified in the preceding verses of 1 John 2:19. They are not simply those who quit coming to church, fell into sin, walked away from closeness &c. They are literally antichrists, or literally those opposed to the Messiah. False teachers really. They have apostatized. 2:19 is a direct reference for the "they" in the context, not a proof-text to apply to those who have gotten themselves into sin.

    I have seen this passage used as a weapon on God's people, and with haughtiness, and I am not saying that you are at all. I have heard preachers preach this because a family or person left the church, implying they are lost, and that their leaving proves it, with what appears as glee to pronounce damnation on such. It is truly sad to me. All I am saying is this passage has a specific meaning and should not be used on those who may fall away for a time in sin. It happens.

    That we pray God brings some back, yes, I can agree with that. But not the apostates, His sheep. He goes and seeks the one who has strayed and brings this one back to the fold.
     
    #12 preacher4truth, Jan 11, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2011
  13. Grace&Truth

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    How do you counsel one in said condition?

    Just wondering how anyone of you would counsel a person who you thought was saved and yet are now living a wicked life but comes to you or goes forward at an invitation?
     
  14. freeatlast

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    Actually you are incorrect. We can know someone's heart according to the Lord.
    matt;15:19
    For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

    Although not your exact words you said you know what scripture says but choose to believe differently. That makes God a liar or the bible not His word. You would do better to believe God's word and pray that He save them rather then hope against the word of God.
     
  15. freeatlast

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    I would ask them if they were ready to get right with God unto salvation. if they insisted that they were saved even in the mist of their sin i would not offer them to the church, but offer to council them and point out scripture to them. if they accepted and saw the light receiving the lord would then offer them to the church as a candidate for baptism and membership.
     
  16. Tom Butler

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    The key part of my first sentence was that we can examine the available evidence. And the verse in Matthew you quoted is certainly ample evidence upon which to make a judgment. I do, however, draw a distinction between making a judgment and truly knowing.

    My comment about clinging to a hope was out of emotion regarding some loved ones. It is a human emotion. That would not prevent me from urging them to repent and beg Christ for mercy, and seek forgiveness for sin.
     

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