Are 1/2 of SBC Foreign Missionaries Charismatic?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by imported_J.R. Graves, Sep 19, 2003.

  1. imported_J.R. Graves

    imported_J.R. Graves
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    ARE ONE-HALF OF ALL SBC FOREIGN MISSIONARIES CHARISMATIC?

    Southern Baptist affiliates of a charismatic network of churches known as Fresh Oil represent just one percent of the denomination’s 43,000 congregations. But Fresh Oil’s leader, Ron Phillips, says there is a grudging acceptance developing within the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC).

    Regardless of where fellow Baptists stand, Fresh Oil members are no longer concerned with debating the issue. “In Tennessee, there is openness and acceptance, not disagreement,” said Phillips, pastor of Central Baptist Church in suburban Chattanooga, Tennessee. “But we’re past rubbing each other’s wounds. We’re moving on to missions.”

    …The network has cooperated with both the SBC and independent agencies to help build five churches overseas. Attendees at March’s annual conference donated $30,000 to overseas missions.

    With his services aired weekly on the Trinity Broadcasting Network, Phillips’s outspoken nature rankles cessationists within the nation’s largest Protestant denomination. Yet they can’t get upset with his church’s annual gifts of nearly $200,000 to regional and national SBC causes.

    …“At least half the international mission force operates in the power of the Spirit,” Phillips said. “…I’ve been on the field and seen evidence of it.”

    Some of the 450 Baptist pastors—an overwhelming majority of the group’s 500 affiliated ministries—who identify with Fresh Oil report mixed reactions to their stance.

    Regardless of opposition within the SBC, John Kilpatrick senses a mighty move of the Spirit in Fresh Oil. The pastor of Brownsville Assembly of God, home of the world-renowned Pensacola Revival, Kilpatrick is one of several charismatic speakers at the March meetings.

    When he spoke, many people hit the floor.…“I don’t know enough about the background of Southern Baptists to gauge the hunger,” Kilpatrick said. “I only know when I was there, it felt a lot like Brownsville.”

    - Source: "Sword of the Lord"

    Comments???
     
  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    I would pray that a whole lot more than HALF of missionaries operate in the power of the Spirit!

    Now, understanding he was talking about some mystical cruisematic "experience", I would think that among Baptists only an extremely small amount - 1-2% - would have anything to do with the cultic pentecostal "gifts" as Phillips would believe.

    BTW, I would be a missionary if the gifts were for today and I would be able to preach in a foreign language without even studying it or knowing it. What a miracle.

    But of course, THAT gift of tongues is conveniently omitted from Phillip's thinking.
     
  3. Ben W

    Ben W
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    When people are taken out of there churches and are preaching in a foreign land, reliance on the Holy Spirit becomes much more so, by way of circumstance. No doubt many third world missionaries see people with medical needs and have no supplies. Obviously the only thing to do is to turn to the Lord in Prayer and ask for healing. As James instructs us to do.

    Going by the many miracles that have occured in Third world nations, maybe missionaries experience miracles of God and then get put out of the Cessationist Camp and in with the Pentecostals.
     
  4. gb93433

    gb93433
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    I would hope it would be 100 percent. When I was pastoring I met many men of God but so many hated it when someone from Nashville came. I saw the same thing in seminary. I would hear students in seminary encourage the person from Nashville to just talk and get out of the class. What I heard is what Baptists are doing. I can't rememeber one time whenI would hear what God is doing. But from my missionary friends I would hear about what God is doing. In class I would hear about what God is doing or has done. Rarely did I hear much about the SBC. I appreciated the efforts on the part of the professors. They taugh us what the Bible teaches not so much what Baptists believe. I appreciated that so often I would hear about Baptists believing what the Bible taught. We need a huge dose of what the Bible teaches. The Baptist version is not inspired but scripture is. We must always compare what we believe against what scripture teaches. I would like to think that what this Baptist believes is what scripture teaches. But I am still studying trying to know God better. When we know God we have all we need.
     
  5. Jonathan

    Jonathan
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    I doubt that this particular stat is correct. Aside from the lack of verifiable data, there is an extensive screening process to become an IMB missionary.

    However, this does raise an interesting issue. There are a number of conservative SBC congregations that would be offended by how missionaries work on the field. I would suggest that missionaries, by and large, operate on a much more pure biblical basis than we do in our comfortable North American Zion.

    I've visited with some missionaries on the field in Asia and corresponded with some from other 10/40 areas and the average church member would be astonished with how much these hero have to rely upon the Holy Spirit.
     
  6. atestring

    atestring
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    It is hard to know actual figures about "Spirit Filled" missionaries since they teel that have to keep this quite while in America or be expelled. But I believe Dr. Phillips is close in saying this about 1/2 of Southern Baptist Missionaries.
    This is not limited to Southern Baptist.
    I know a former missionary to Bolivia that has told me about Baptist people speaking in tongues and seeing supernatural healings.
    The North American Mission Board and the Foreign Mission Board of the SBC have rules against approving missionaries that have Charismatic Leanings. However these boards are made up of a few people. There is notheing in The Baptist Faith and Message (including the 2000 version)that does not allow charismatic leanings.
    The SBC will not tackle this issue because studies show that 20% of SBC members have Charismatic Leanings and they would not want ot loose 1/5 of their support.
    The Georgia Baptist Convention tried to pass a resolution against Charismatic Leanings in 1998 but it failed to pass.
    Florida Baptist are the only group that I know that have a resolution agaist having Charismatic leanings but they have no jurisdiction outside the State of Florida.
    There are Southern Baptist Churches that are
    very openly Charismatic.
     
  7. Ben W

    Ben W
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    here are two openly charasmatic Baptist Denominations.

    The Pentecostal Freewill Baptist Church

    http:www.pfwb.org/

    The Full Gospel Baptist Church

    http://www.fullgospelbaptist.org/

    There are several other smaller ones. As well as many Charasmatic groups within existing Baptist circles.
     
  8. Dr. Bob

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    Am familiar with the "full gospel Baptist" bunch. FULL GOSPEL is the operative word; BAPTIST is seldom seen or heard, even in their church names.

    And it is, of course, a LIE. The first and primary distinctive of Baptists is "Bible is sole authority for faith and practice". Anyone who accepts tongues, word of knowledge, revelation, etc is NOT having the Bible as the SOLE authority. Sad.

    A minority within a minority for sure. Can honestly say that charismatic Baptists would be less than 1/10 of 1% of the Baptists in the USA.

    Are they bigger than that in Australia? I know from experience that there are many more charismatic/pentecostal types per usual in Australia than in the USA. (Thinking it's because of the Anglican/Methodist connection that was the parent movement of Pentecostalism is so much more prevalent there).
     
  9. atestring

    atestring
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    If only 1/10 of 1% of Baptist in the USA is Charismatic then why do so many on this board get so hot and bothered over the Charismatic Subject. I would think that if this percentage were exact that hte subject could be easily ignored.
    Let a thread about anything Charismatic get started on the Baptistboard and see how many people respond.
    The fact is that there are enough Charismatics in Baptist Churches to cause a reaction.
    However in the Southern Baptist Convention the idea of a resolution against Charismatic/Pentecostals never makes it past a committee because of the fear of alienating the people in Southern Baptist Pews that would leave.
    I will admit that I do not know a lot about Baptist that are not Southern Baptist.
    I know Southern Baptist Pastors and Particular Youth Pastors that Speak in Tongues and operate in other gifts such as word of Knowledge, Working of Miracles , gifts of healing.
    Even Beeson Seminary ( A Southern Baptist Seminary) in Birmingham Al. Has a painting of William F. Seymore ( the one eyed Black preacher from AZusa Street) as part of a painting called "The Cloud of Witnesses" which is painted on the top of a dome in their chapel which has paintings of Men and women that have contributed to the proclaimation of the Gospel. Among these are Lottie Moon, Spurgeon, Calvin, Luther, and others. Why would William F. Seymore' be listed among these people if he had been some kind of heretical man?
    Dr. Bob , if you ever go through Birmingham Alabama you should stop at Samford University where Beeson Seminary is located and see the painting and ask why William F. Seymore's painting is there. My son attends Samford University. I would be glad to meet you there.
     
  10. greatday

    greatday
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    Many Baptists are die hards who say don't give me facts my mind is made up! And when the blind ones lead the blind they all fall into the ditch! Praise the Lord!

    ISA 42:19 Who is blind but My servant, Or deaf as My messenger whom I send? Who is blind as he who is perfect, And blind as the LORD'S servant?
     
  11. 3John2

    3John2
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    As a full blown charismatic who attended & got saved at a Baptist church I find this very interesting. I currently attend a Full Gospel church. Several years ago there was QUITE a stir over a full blown BAPTIST church was that reported to be flowing in the full gifts of the Spirit. That created a real ruckus. There was more life in that church than in many pentecostal churches. Now they are just accepted by the other pentecostal/WOF/Charismatic churches as one of their own though they are a Baptist church. The amazing thing was the people from the baptist church were apprehensive at first but dove in head on when they saw they changes in the youth. Their youth group was ON FIRE. Anyways just my 2 cents.
     
  12. Jonathan

    Jonathan
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    Again, how would one even begin to speculate that 1/2 of Southern Baptist missionaries are charismatic leaning? This is a very serious charge and one that ought not be tossed around with some serious data.

    Let's deal with these one at a time. Were the "tongues" a fit of babbling that was untelligible or was it an actual language previously unknown to the speaker but clearly known to folks in the audience? About the supernatural healings, are you suggesting that God limits Himself from healing works outside of the bounds of conventional medicine?

    Can you clarify this a bit? How, in your understanding, do these boards define "charismatic leanings"?

    What is the source of this data?

    How about some more information on this one too?

    I might probably be in agreement with you on these issue if I knew specifically what you were talking about. Get back to us with some more definitions and data to support your assertions and let's move the discussion forward.
     

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