Are ALL the Word of faith/prosperity/health/wealth Groups heretical?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by DaChaser1, Feb 10, 2012.

  1. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,324
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just that they have a false Gospel period?
     
  2. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,129
    Likes Received:
    207
    I believe they are intrinsically demonic in source of power and doctrine.
     
  3. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,324
    Likes Received:
    0
    Would you, as I do, see a cleaf difference between those Charasmatic groups that teach those doctrines, and more "mainstream" pentacostal churches such as Assemblies of God?
     
  4. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,129
    Likes Received:
    207
    The difference is extent of error. The Assembly of God still preach and teach "another gospel" which does not have the Holy Spirit as its source. They preach justification by works precisely because they assert that works utlimately detemines heaven or hell.
     
  5. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,324
    Likes Received:
    0
    actually, doesn't the AoG teach that one is saved by grace and faith alone in Jesus, but that we still have a second act of grace, they call "HS Baptism", in which one can receiev the "fulness" of the HS to witness, use the Gifts, etc?

    Would see them as offshoots if say wesyln holiness churches, nazarene with pentacostal additions!

    Arminian in sotierology, with their own 'distinctives" added on!

    Gospel would be taught by them, problems is their "add on" not biblical!
     
  6. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,129
    Likes Received:
    207
    As you know the use of Biblical terms is worthless unless it is also accompanied with the correct Biblical definition of those terms.

    The AoG like Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses and Roman Catholicism use all the right Biblical terms in expressing their gospel. However, they teach clearly that true children of God can lose their salvation and go to hell. The only basis for a true child of God to lose their salvation is based upon their works and obviously not "good" works but "bad" works. Hence, they deny the meaning of "grace" and "saved" and "eternal" life and repudiate the sufficiency of the atonement of Christ and thus teach another gospel.
     
  7. Christos doulos

    Christos doulos
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    0
    I wouldn't say it is heretical; moreso abhorrent. They deliberately manipulate the text. They see scripture as living and the same passage can mean different things to different people. Their homiletic is way off.
     
    #7 Christos doulos, Feb 10, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 10, 2012
  8. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,129
    Likes Received:
    207
    Scriptures may have different applications to different people but no scripture contains contradictory applications or contradictory meanings to different people.

    The different applications is due to the fact that every truth is broad as it is interconnected with every other truth.

    However, to say that one text can provide contradictory applications, contradictory doctrines is oxymoronic and contrary to the nature of God who is not the "author of confusion".

    They preach "another gospel" even though some may be actually saved but deceived as were the Galatians (Gal. 3:1)
     
  9. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    Since Baptists don't accept the ecumenical creeds as defining "Christianity," by what standard do you judge heresy?

    And, no, "We only believe the Bible" doesn't cut it because it is the equivalent of "We only believe the US Constitution." If that was a valid argument then most political and religious forums would never have come into existence.
     
  10. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,324
    Likes Received:
    0
    They are classic Arminianist in salvation as regards to can lose ones salvation, but don't think THAT by itself makes a church non biblical/false Gospel, just wrong in that regards of denying security of the believer!

    To my understanding, a true false gospel /Christ is a church that teaches one is not saved by the grace of God , through atonemnt of Christ upon the cross, appropiated by faith alone, no other additional acts/grace needed!

    also, false chrsit would be part o fit...

    AoG has Gospel that sinners can ONLY be saved by jesus death on Cross for their sins, andreceived by faith alone...

    So Gospel itself correct, same jesus as ours, just that being Arminians, would refuse eternal security!
     
    #10 DaChaser1, Feb 10, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 10, 2012
  11. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,129
    Likes Received:
    207
    The bottom line difference between the true gospel of Christ and "another gospel" is denial or acceptance of the sufficiency of Christ and his provision to eternally save his people.

    The difference between justification by works versus justification by grace through faith is the differnce beween accepting or denying the sufficiency of Christ's provision to eternally save his People.

    Justification by works denies the sufficiency of the promise of the gospel as sufficient in itself to eternally save anyone. Thus the doctrine of apostasy from salvation by works is the necessary manifest evidence rejecting the sufficiency of Christ and his provision as promised in the gospel.
     
  12. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,324
    Likes Received:
    0
    Are you really saying here that ONLY a view of sotierology , as regards to the question of wether one can actually lose their salvation will make a Gospel real/false?

    That ALl arminianist would be preaching false gosel. none would be getting saved?
     
  13. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,129
    Likes Received:
    207
    Whether they are actually saved or not is determined by what they actually trusted in at the time of their profession rather than some later theological explanation they have come to.

    However, their soteriological explanation of the salvation is false, another gospel and denies the sufficiency of Christ provision and the promise of the gospel.
     
  14. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,324
    Likes Received:
    0
    again, are you saying that only Calvinists/reformed have real gospel, arminians and non cals don't?

    I do agree with the implication of what they say IF see can lose etrnal life, but isn't it the truth that they do have right Gospel/Christ, just misunderstand fully what their theological understanding of it implicates?
     
  15. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,129
    Likes Received:
    207
    The promise of the gospel is ETERNAL and therefore UNCONDITIONAL life. They are preaching a gospel of TEMPORAL and CONDITIONAL life. They are denying the very heart of the gospel and that is the COMPLETE SATISFACTION OF THE LAW by Christ to save those who believe in the gospel.

    The doctrine of apostasy is the outright denial of the SUFFICIENCY of the promise of the gospel and thus the SUFFICIENCY of the Person and work of Christ to obtain salvation.

    The doctrine of apostasy is the outright assertion that justification is by works and the heart of the gospel is justification is by faith WITHOUT works because Christ SUFFICIENTLY SATISFIED ALL THE LAWS DEMANDS without your works.

    Simply because they mouth the right words does not change what they DEFINE those words to mean. If they are saved they are saved IN SPITE OF later theological error they learn.
     
  16. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,324
    Likes Received:
    0
    they define salvation as being saved by grace/faith alone....
     
  17. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,129
    Likes Received:
    207
    No, they state it by using those terms but deny it by their definition of those terms.

    The simple acid test of discerning what a person or denomination MEANS by justification by grace through faith alone is simply to ask them if such a person genuinely saved can lose their salvation. If they say yes, they believe in justification by works - period!

    Why? because the ONLY WAY a genuinely saved person can lose their salvation is to DENY the MEANING of grace and DENY the MEANING of justification by faith ALONE and DENY that Christ completely SATISFIED the Law's demand - that is the ONLY WAY you can believe in apostasy of true born again Christians.

    Hence, the bottom line is that they actually DENY the gospel presents the good news that Jesus Christ has FINISHED and/or COMPLETELY SATISIFIED the full demands of the Law of God for those who receive the promise of the gospel by faith! The doctrine of apostasy is the formulated denial of the gospel promise and the assertion of the belief in justification by works REGARDLESS of the terms they use.

    Here is how they do it. They state that the human will that received this promise of the gospel has the power to reject it after receiving it and/or if the believer does not repent of evil deeds before death he will go to hell. Thus condemned or justified ultimately by what YOU DO rather than what Christ DID.
     
  18. Alcott

    Alcott
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,455
    Likes Received:
    93
    Are ALL the Word of faith/prosperity/health/wealth Groups heretical?

    Yeah. Why ain't they be?
     
  19. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    3,822
    Likes Received:
    0
    Regarding the "Name it-Claim, it" prosperity bunch, I believe they clearly are teaching full blown heresy, although some to a much greater extent than others.

    The assembllies of God, and groups similar to them are generally fine.

    They have some different convictions, but nothing that anyone should refuse fellowship with them over. :wavey:
     
  20. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,129
    Likes Received:
    207
    They deny that Jesus Christ fully satisfied all the demands of the law against sinnres which is the very heart of justification by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. They deny the gospel promise of unconditional eternal life but believe in conditional termporal life. They teach the doctrine of apostasy and deny that all that the Father gives to the Son will come to the Son and none shall be lost. They preach another gospel while using gospel terminology.
     
    #20 The Biblicist, Feb 11, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2012

Share This Page

Loading...