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Are Bapticostal welcome here.

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by mickd7, Dec 15, 2004.

?
  1. yes

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  2. no

    0 vote(s)
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  1. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    No KJOists :mad:

    No Bapticostals :mad:

    No Free Will advocates :mad:

    No mid- or pre-tribers

    No preterists

    No amillennialists

    No post-millennialists

    No advocates of covenant theology

    No west coast U.S.A. Baptists [​IMG]

    :(

    No. Please don’t do that! [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    Is not a gift of the Spirit used to show doubters? If so, call me a doubter?

    By the way, thanks LadyEagle for giving an excuse not to send me a copy. :rolleyes:
     
  3. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    Just as an interesting side note, I just happened to be reading in Acts last night--the part about Pentecost and shortly thereafter.

    It was interesting that I paid particular attention to exactly "Who" had the power of healing and so forth. It was the apostles. Not long after Pentecost when Matthias was chosen to replace Judas Iscariot.

    People would place sick friends so that the shadow of PETER would fall on them. Why were the thousands of New Christians not healing?

    There WAS one exception and that was Stephen who was stoned while Saul watched and approved.

    I believe that Acts is pretty clear as to who was given the promises of powers of healing and REAL speaking in tongues. (Being able to be understood by a foreigner.)

    I still say it is amazing that a whole doctrine can be built on a single statement where Paul is actually chastising a church for misuse of tongues and is putting strict limits on the actual use, making it almost impossible except under special conditions.

    Then for someone to translate Paul making a statement "Though I speak with the languages of men and of angels" in a manner that did not even meant he did so--and to make a doctrine out of this is incredible.

    Like I said, if a person holds one Pentecostal belief, the others will either be there or creep in shortly.

    As we have already seen, Baptism of the Holy Spirit apart from Salvation has already been accepted by the "so called Bapticostal" and possibly the loss of salvation. All three of which are false pentecostal doctrines.

    Like I say, if it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck.

    It is NOT that we do not like you. This is NOT a popularity contest. Non-Baptists are free to post in areas on this board.

    In fact, I am a little upset that you keep making yourself out to be a victim, Craig, but the truth is, your doctrine is "Pentecostal" NOT "Baptist".

    You can be a member of the Church of Satan and call yourself a Baptist, but it doesn't make you one. And, don't twist my words, I am NOT saying that about you, just making a point about how the term of Baptist is being thrown around here.

    Finally, although there may be some truth in it that you cannot tell the SBC from Pentecostal in ten years. This may be true in some areas, but I can PROMISE you that it is NOT true where I live.

    You guys can say what you want about SBC, but since the conservatives have returned to power, the SBC is more conservative NOW than many independant churches. Look how often I get accused of "legalism", when I draw a line.
     
  4. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    Sorry for the ranting folks, but sometimes I believe Jesus expects us to stand up for our beliefs. And pentecostal doctrines are NOT my beliefs, nor can you prove that they are Biblical. Especially, these major Pentecostal doctrines of:
    1. babbling tongues and confusion
    2. loss of salvation
    3. baptism of the Holy Spirit apart from Salvation
    4. Fulfillment of the Holy Spirit seperated from salvation.
     
  5. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    I can assure you that the General Council of the Assemblies of God finds such conduct in its churches to be no less abysmal than you and I do.

    The last Assembly of God church of which I was a member (more than 25 years ago) was pastored for more than 30 years by a former professor of Greek at Wheaton College and he did not allow pre-Neanderthal behavior in that church for so much as a fraction of a nanosecond!

    I did not leave the Assemblies of God because of early hominid behavior; I left the Assemblies of God because their official position (contrary to the belief of some of their pastors) on the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is that the initial evidence of that baptism is always, without exception, speaking in other tongues, a doctrine that I believe to be incorrect and divisive.

    For those who may be seriously interested in learning about Pentecostal theology, I recommend the following book which I find to be exceptionally fair, objective, and thoroughly researched,

    Frederick Dale Bruner, A Theology of the Holy Spirit: The Pentecostal Experience and the New Testament Witness, William B. Eerdmans, Publisher, 1970. 390 pages including a very extensive bibliography and indexes.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    I am not Pentecostal, and I never have been! If you want to know what I believe and why, read the book that I referenced. Bruner and I independently came to very similar conclusions about the Pentecostal experience.
     
  7. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    Amen!

    However, I believe that Jesus expects us to carefully and prayerfully study the Scriptures with the help of the tools that He makes available to us, and to avoid coming to hasty and premature conclusions regarding Biblical doctrine. It also helps to understand what the other guy's position is before slamming him for believing something radically different from what he really believes. The careful and prayerful reading of posts helps a little in this department.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. mickd7

    mickd7 Guest

    Phillip: With all due respect it would not matter if I spoke a thousand words in tongues for it would be maligned and mocked and I would not do that with a Gift God has given me. But I will give a example as I have stated before.
    When I first received the gift of tongues I did have some doubts and the Holy Spirit led me to visit a library in the area and I went to the section with languages from around the world and just by the sounds of my gift of which I was praying over and over I discovered that I had been praying in Hebrew and Spanish the words, man, soul, peace and salvation and this caused me to never doubt again.
    You may think I am making this up but it is true. Look I am not trying to get anyone to speak in tongues here but only discussing a subject on this board. I do not understand why folks like Dr. Bob are getting so up tight about this subject concerning tongues or anything else for it is clearly in the Bible and no where does the Word say tongues are not for all generations.
    I will admit that tongues and all the Gifts have been abused terribly in some churches or groups but Paul had the same problem in the first church but he did not say get rid of them because of abuse but he wrote three whole chapters to help us to know how to use Gods gifts correctly.
    I have seen tongues and the other gifts used many times and I have seen abuse many times but the greatest majority were done decently and in order and they served the purpose of edifying and building up the church as intended.
    Diane: My dear lady we can be filled with the Holy Spirit and should be and we are even admonished to be filled with the Spirit. Of course we receive the whole person of the Holy Ghost at salvation, but we do not let him fill us to overflowing as we should. In other words it is not how much of the Spirit we have but how much he has us.
    entangled: I do not know what church you went to but I have never ever seen such behavior in a Assembley of God church and as a matter of fact if folks acted that way in the ones I was a part of they would have been called down by the pastor.
    You sure it was the AG of Springfield ?
     
  9. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Cute, but terribly wrong and misleading, even in jest.

    I don't like the theology (or lack of same) of "onlyism". I don't agree with others on the list.

    But I see pentecostalism (modern sham-tongues movement) as a totally different entity. One CAN be a Baptist and be covenant or &gt;gasp&lt; free willy. But one CANNOT be a Baptist and be pentecostal.
     
  10. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
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  11. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    Sorry Ben. Baptist AND Pentecostal... That's an oxymoron.
     
  12. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
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    Isnt that really a little like judging others to say who can be a Baptist and who cannot.

    Judgement by the same measure would eliminate also a number of the "only" groups from Baptists.
     
  13. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    They must be careful not to tear their pants. I did that once when I straddled a fence. Right before I fell off on one side. (The wrong side, the one with the mud.) .........get it? :rolleyes:
     
  14. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    Can a Pentecostal preacher be a Baptist, particuarly if speaking in tongues is linked to Salvation?

    Using Ben's own train of thought from a KJVO thread.
     
  15. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    No! It's a LOT like judging who can be a Baptist or not depending on their agreement with the Baptist Faith and Message.

    Pentecostals are NOT Baptists. Bapticostals are not Baptists.
     
  16. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
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    Yet Bapticostal churches do not link salvation with speaking in tounges. You usually find that type of theology in the groups that deny the Trinity such as the Oneness or Apostolic churches.

    The teaching of the PFWB and other Bapticostal groups and various SBC churches that have Charasmatic renewel meetings is that Tounges are a gift that are one of the many Spiritual Gifts God gives to all. You most certainley can be in a PFWB church and not speak in tounges.

    A good book on the subject is by Tony Campolo and it is called "being Pentecosal without speaking in Toungues".

    Pentecostal Christian does not automatically mean a Christian that is into speaking in tounges.
     
  17. carrie

    carrie New Member

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    Just wanted to check in and say that I also have roots in the pentecostal holiness church but i generally try to not make that an issue, I just think we could all worship together, just my two cents, sorry !

    Love in Christ,
    Sister Carrie
     
  18. LRL71

    LRL71 New Member

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    Guaranteed not. You have not yet begun to feel my ire than to start with the boatload of pentecostal false doctrine like the pseudo/sham tongues going on today.

    Remember, I do not believe that one can be a Baptist and believe in tongues for today by defintion of the Baptist distinctives. If we get folks promoting the tongues heresy, I will work to shut them down.

    Serious as a heart attack. You have NO WORRY that the BB might ever go "pentecostal". I am SORRY that such a thought would even cross someone's mind, and apologize that we haven't been more dilligent in condemning such.
    </font>[/QUOTE]AAAAAAAMEN!
    Thanks, Dr. Bob!! ;)
     
  19. Pete

    Pete New Member

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    Amen LRL71 [​IMG] My thanks to Dr Bob as well [​IMG]

    Must admit that even though current "*costal" numbers on Baptist Board are small I have been more than a bit worried....saw a Church go that way once :(

    Thanks again Dr Bob [​IMG]
     
  20. mickd7

    mickd7 Guest

    Ben W: What happened to your board my friend?


    People like Dr. Bob are alarmist and in typical IFB fashion want to censure other thoughts and Christians who might disagree with his theology. He acts like he is scared to death of others that are not like him. But if God wishes to do a work in the body of Christ wheather Baptist or otherwise he shall do so and folks like Bob will be swept aside.
    I am a Baptist, SBC, that follows and believe in the whole Baptist Faith and Message plus I believe the whole Word of God and do not dismiss any of Gods Word just because I do not understand it like Bob does.
    There is nowhere in the Word of God that states that any Gift of the Spirit and that includes tongues will cease until Jesus comes back and we are face to face and I challenge Bob or anyone else to show that they do and please dont use the one Scripture that says tongues will cease because as good Baptist we know that we cannot build a doctrine on one Scripture but it has to be taken as a whole.
    While we are at it show me one word in the Baptist Faith and Message that says the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today.


    Ole brother Bob dont mind getting on other boards here and lamblasting tongues and Pentacostals but he cant discuss tongues with Baptist!!! Now what kind of deal is that. If you folks let people like Bob run the show you wont have anything but what Bob wants. Stand up SBC members here and dont let folks like him run amuck and take your freedom of speech away as he has threatened to do unless he runs the show here. Then we might as well fold our tents and go home.
    Jerry Falwell on his show today spoke about Christians Parsley and Hagee and how they had some great things to say as he watched them on TV and he said even though they are Pentacostal and does not agree with their theology they still had some good things to share and to me that is the Conservative Southern Baptist theme today and that is to love and share with all brothers and sisters in Christ and preach the Gospel.
     
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