Are Catholics really Christians?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by valueoftruth, Dec 30, 2005.

  1. valueoftruth

    valueoftruth
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    I've heard it a lot of times before, "Catholics are Christians!"

    Well the truth is, no they aren't! Catholics are as lost as a needle in a hay stack.

    By now, you are probably thinking, "Gosh, what a jerk! How can he say somebody is NOT a Christian? Let alone ALL Catholics!" Well let's get something straight here: what exactly determines a person's salvation?

    Jesus Christ my friend!

    The Catholic Religion simply teaches otherwise. They teach that the 7 sacraments of the church are absolutely necessary in order to obtain salvation. This is heresy ladies and gentlemen. The Bible teaches that FAITH saves a person, specifically, FAITH in JESUS CHRIST.

    Let's look at a quick example why it's faith and not sacraments (works):
    Acts 3:6-8, 12, 13, 16
    "3:6
    Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
    3:7
    And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
    3:8
    And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.
    3:12
    And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
    3:13
    The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus;
    3:16
    And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all."

    Peter was telling the crowd that he did nothing to make this person whole. But in fact, it was this man's faith in the name of JESUS that made him whole. It's the same kind of faith that we have when we believe upon the Lord Jesus to save and forgive us.

    Unfortunately, the truth can sometimes be cruel. But Catholics do not believe the just shall live by faith. Catholics will go to hell.

    [edited to rephrase the title of this thread]

    [ December 30, 2005, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: Pastor_Bob ]
     
  2. standingfirminChrist

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    I agree that Jesus Christ is the only way for a person to receive entrance in Heaven. He is the Door.

    Mary is not a Co-Redemptrix as the Catholic Church teaches.
     
  3. pinoybaptist

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    Whoa there, friends. Let's try to think this through.
    First, I will agree that Catholics are not Christians, but then, neither are Seventh Day Adventists, JW's, Baptists, Protestants, Episcopalians, Methodists, Presbyterians, and the rest in so-called 'Christendom', who profess to be and call themselves Christians.
    Those are titles , friends. Handles, if you will. Names of denominations and memberships in such denominations do not necessarily make anybody a Christian.
    Like the OP said, Jesus Christ is what makes someone a Christian.
    That is, belonging to Jesus Christ by virtue of the will, and act of God, in eternity past, at the cross, and in the tomb and not belonging to Christ because one professed Christ, one walked down some aisle and prayed a silly little prayer, and said 'yes, I understand I am now saved'. Or because one chose Christ.
    Neither do doctrines commend one to God, or send one to hell. No, they don't.
    Doctrines give one a true, or false, view of God, a true, or false, value of himself, and causes him to be lost here in time , but not for eternity, which is why those who know the gospel are charged to preach it anytime and anywhere they can.
    Not to get those who are in the grips of false doctrines and erroneous teaching saved because Jesus Christ already saved them, but, to reveal the light and immortality already theirs in Christ.
    The Catholics can call Mary, or Peter, or Paul, or any of their popes co-redemptrix or co-mediatrix all they want, the fact remains that Jesus Christ and Him only is Lord and every knee in heaven, earth, and under the earth will bow to that one day.
    The Roman Catholic church is not a Christian church, Roman Catholics are Roman Catholics, but there are true Christians within that church.
     
  4. valueoftruth

    valueoftruth
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    I will agree with you there phinoybaptist.

    There are Christians within the Catholic Church. However, eventually, they will leave the Catholic Church because it's a counterfeit of the true church. The Holy Spirit, I believe, will guide them to leave the Catholic religion.
    ---Brian
    www.valueoftruth.com
     
  5. Jim1999

    Jim1999
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    Guess I will join my Catholic brethren who love the Lord Jesus as much as anyone I know. Thankfully, it is that Lord Jesus who determines one's eternal destiny and that is imprinted in His blood.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  6. zealouswest

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    Wow. That really proves it all, doesn't it? There is no arguing with such a clearly stated arguement against Catholicism, is there?

    It is my understanding of the Catholic faith that they accept Christ and have faith in his name. This proves nothing.

    Sure. Ultimately I think the sacrements are what they are only by the power of god, not man. I don't believe that the Catholic Church disagrees with that, however. I do know that one of their sacrements, annointing of the sick, is dealt with very blatantly in James 5:13 and following.

    God uses people to perform his sacremetns he gave us, jsut as he uses us to do most all of his work.

    Unfortunately those who perceive that they alone have the truth and are infallible themselves can be arrogant jerks.

    My understanding of this doctrine is that Mary was complicit and necessary for salvation though salvation came through christ. In the same way Eve was complicit and necessary for the fall though our sin came from Adam. They were an intimate part of that first fall and that redemption, and so she is the "co-redemptorix" - not a redeemer herself in any way. That's my understanding of it anyway - and if that's all it means then it doesn't strike me as heretical.

    A catholic showed me this once. I think it is interesting that the very first christians self-applied the term "catholic" to themselves (it means "universal" in greek), whereas the term "christian" was coined by others in antioch to seperate the believers in Christ from the other Jews.
     
  7. Melanie

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    Thankfully it is to the Lord Jesus Christ that I will be judged by when I die and not by men.

    We can go round and round and round on this topic but at the end of the day I can not get the mote out your eye and I am utterly convinced that my salvation is throught the faith that I profess.

    God Bless You in 2006
    [​IMG]
     
  8. zealouswest

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  9. BobRyan

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    This appears to be "different" from your opening post. Here you argue that the saints ARE found in the RCC - they are Christians - they are saved, but their system of error is something that God will lead them out of over time (if given enough time to discover it before they die - I presume).

    I can agree with this - but how is that different from saying that the Lutherans will someday be shown their error or the Methodists or the Presbyterians or ...

    (After all they can not ALL be right about ALL things)

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  10. zealouswest

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    Until 1054, there was only the Catholic Church. Then we had the Catholic and Orthodox churchs' split - though they agreed on almost everything but the pope's authority OVER other bishops who did indeed have authority and legitimate succession...

    It was not until the 16th century that protestantism reared its head...so...

    What happened to the church that Christ said would not fail for those interveening centuries? Where was the non-catholic church in 700 AD or even 200 AD? Any historian - Catholic or otherwise - will tell you that the Catholic Church has existed from the beginning. If they are such an abomination, what happened to Christ's church? Was Christ unable to keep his promise? Is satan that powerful?
     
  11. Alexander

    Alexander
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    Jim & Zealouswest:

    Thank you for your thoughtful responses.

    We are not in a position to judge our brother's hearts.

    The church is composed of all the faithful in all ages, regardless of where or how they worship.

    Alexander
     
  12. zealouswest

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    But we are in a position to judge the truth it would seem.

    I do not believe the Catholic Church is nearly as close to heresy as many believe.
     
  13. gb93433

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    In the past before I ever joined a Baptist church I shared my faith with a lot of Baptists who were not born again. Any Baptist pastor knows he has rebaptized those who followed the crowd and were not born again the first time they were immersed.

    Seems like I remember from my high school days that not one of my friends who went to a protestant chruch ever shared their faith with me. One of my friends' dad was a Baptist pastor in town. During that time the most evangelical person was a Catholic Christian in my class. There was another fellow student in my class who would seperate himself from the rest and brought his Bible to class and read it sometimes. Never once did I ever hear him say he was a Christian or ever speak out on some of the issues. There were many times when we had class discussions in Biology on a number of issues.

    Some are Catholics because that is all they know. Some are Catholic Baptists because they are loyal as Catholics to the Baptist church and do not have a clue that there are other believers out there who might just happen to go to other churches. Some Church of Christ folks believe they are the only people who will be saved. There numbers are declining. Some of those folks won't associate Max Lucado too.

    Most Catholics I know (I was one too) do not agree with a number of the doctrines the RCC teaches.
     
  14. gb93433

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    You are not above the truth. You are not the truth. The truth judges you.

    Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

    James 4:12, "There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy; but who are you who judge your neighbor?"
     
  15. Pastor_Bob

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    I do not believe that you can paint with this broad of a brush. The fact that a person is a Catholic does not send them to hell. The only thing that will send a person to hell is to reject the salvation freely offered by God through the Lord Jesus Christ.

    The fact that a person is a Baptist will not get them into heaven. Salvation is a personal relationship with the Lord, not a corporate relationship with a church of any kind.

    One could make this statement, "All those who put their trust in Catholicism will go to hell." You could also say, "All those who put their trust in their church membership will go to hell."

    You seem to concede this point when you posted later:
    I personally believe the Catholic church is teaching false doctrine that is responsible for deceiving millions of people, therefore sending them to hell. I also believe the Calvinist T.U.L.I.P. doctrine is doing the same thing. Further, I believe the IFB philosophy of easy-believism is doing the very same thing.
     
  16. Charles Meadows

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    As a former catholic I can tell you that there certainly ARE Christians in the RCC.

    I am sad to say that they are probably NOT the majority of catholics. In my whole family, which is large and all catholic I think my mother and one brother alone are really Christians, having faith and a true relationship with Christ.

    And the Vatican line on the "Co-redemptrix" does not make Mary equal to Christ, only a helper to Him.

    Statements like "no catholics will go to heaven" are silly. Remember it has nothing to do with what church one goes to but rather what one believes.

    If you believe that going to a catholic church means one cannot be saved then you localize salvation in a work and not in faith.
     
  17. zealouswest

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    Allow me to rephrase that. We are in a position to judge the veracity of a claim or a teaching - or else we have no reason to believe anything.

    We can, however, be mis-informed - as are most who read Chick Tracts.
     
  18. Eliyahu

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  19. webdog

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    I would disagree. When John Paul died, his "all my faith in Mary" inscription garbage is as heretical as it gets. Any religion that prays to dead people, and deliberately ignores Biblical teachings against things like graven images, people worship, and works salvation not to mention the pope being the "vicar (substitute) of Christ" is pure heresy.
     
  20. zealouswest

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    perhaps www.catholic.com. They're the largest Catholic apologetic organization in North America (like www.equip.org for Catholics) and they do a pretty good job.

    However if you want the church's official teachigns, look in the catechism here.

    At least get it from the proverbial horses mouth.

    Then your understanding is mistaken.
     

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