Are Christians required to Tithe?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by IfbReformer, Jun 18, 2003.

  1. IfbReformer

    IfbReformer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2002
    Messages:
    708
    Likes Received:
    0
    I studied the issue of tithing about 10 years ago
    and came to a conclusion based off my study of
    the scriptures that Christians are not under
    the law of tithing.

    I have recently put together this article for my website and wanted to let you all take a stab at it.

    I know many Christians have strong views on this
    but I hope you will read the article below that I just posted to my site before you turn me off.

    I was just going to post excerpts - but it does
    not do it justice to look at it in bits and pieces.

    To read the article in its entirety go to http://www.ifbreformation.org/tithing.html

    I look forward to your observations both for or
    against. But as always keep your responses civil and speak what you believe to be the truth in brotherly love.

    IFBReformer
     
  2. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    Required? Maybe not.

    But should they? Yes. It's a matter of obedience. Moreover, it's a matter of discipline.
     
  3. ByGrace

    ByGrace
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2002
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0
    God is not looking for people to tithe. I believe God wants his people to obey Him as he speaks to your heart and determine the amount you can freely give and cheerfully give it.

    God is not sitting in heaven giving brownie points to those who tithe and bad marks to those who don't. Just because you tithe does not mean you are pleasing God.
     
  4. IfbReformer

    IfbReformer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2002
    Messages:
    708
    Likes Received:
    0
    If you are saying you believe it is a matter of obedience than you believe it is required.

    Did you read the article?

    IFBReformer
     
  5. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,973
    Likes Received:
    129
    I think it’s a good article you wrote.

    My feeling is that it is a little weak in the stewardship paragraph. God has said that He will provide for our needs. Our responsibility is to separate our needs from our wants. A tough thing to teach to the ME generation.

    One of the weaknesses of many churches is that they fail to counsel those in financial difficulty on how to be responsible stewards of what God has given them. This is not a responsibility of bankers and CPA’s, it’s a responsibility of the church.

    Once proper stewardship principles are practiced, proper giving falls into place more easily.

    By the way, great start on the web site [​IMG]

    Rob
     
  6. Sularis

    Sularis
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    940
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hrm - I notice you left out the promise of God concerning tithing

    That passage is one of the main ones I use to support tithing as a personal choice

    Although Im so poor - I cannae tithe - I keep telling God - give me lots of money and half of it is yers

    But if my new job works I will get to increase my givings
     
  7. Ben W

    Ben W
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2002
    Messages:
    8,868
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is a really good thing to see that people are not afraid to question what churches teach as literal.

    Churches have been pushing a 10% Tithe for years, yet now people are waking up that it is a false doctrine.

    For some 10% is to much, for others nowhere near enough. Likely that is why the Gentiles are not instructed to tithe, Yet we see a model of the church were each family helps each other, and nobody goes without.

    I would encourage anyone who feels that a ten Percent tithe is commanded in scripture to look at it carefully and look for evidence for it in the New Testament. Be a Berean, study Gods Word for the answer, dont just believe it because somebody tells you it is so.
     
  8. IfbReformer

    IfbReformer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2002
    Messages:
    708
    Likes Received:
    0
    Deacon,

    Thanks for comments and even the constructive critisim regarding Stewardship. I agree that
    what we think we need and what we want many times
    becomes blured.

    Having said that, I do believe as I wrote in my article that the first checks I write are those that make sure my family's needs is provided for.

    We could debate what "needs" are on a totally different thread.

    Let me give you a practical real life example of what I am talking about.

    We have a certain amount of money budgeted each month to give to our church. We are very tight though and live check to check.

    Occasionally a bill comes in bigger or my car needs repair and we are not able to give that month.

    Another time was around last Christmas - we
    had our money budgeted for church and God brought
    a needy family our way. We used the money that
    we would have given our church to buy clothes and
    other necessities for that family.

    Now the storehouse tithing advocate would say I was wrong for taking my church money and giving it to that family. I do not believe I was wrong as God brought this family in my path.

    This what I am talking about.

    IFBReformer
     
  9. showard93

    showard93
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2003
    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    0
    I do beleive we should as christiand tithe at least 10% but then theirs missions and other special things that the church may have going on that would be above our tithes. I think it is required because how would the Pastor be paid or the church opperate. I mean it is hard for us sometimes to but God always blesses and you know he could have required 50% or even 90% but he didn't.
     
  10. Jailminister

    Jailminister
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think your question maybe should be "Is tithing a Heaven or Hell Issue?" To that question I would say No. Is it something we should do? Yes. Jesus in the New Testatment says we should. Will you be blessed if you don't. I say you probably will not recieve what you could have recieved in the form of blessings if you do not tithe. It says in Mal 3:10 "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that [there shall] not [be room] enough [to receive it]."

    So even though it may not be required for salvation, it is a matter of obedience.
     
  11. IfbReformer

    IfbReformer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2002
    Messages:
    708
    Likes Received:
    0
    showard93,

    Thanks for the comments - but did you read the article? I addressed what you are saying about the Pastor being paid.

    from my article:

    Once again I will reiteratate what said in the article - if a church cannot survive completely off the free-will non-compelled offerings of the Lord's people than it should sell everything it has and move into someone's home. Buildings and facilities are nice but they do not make up the church - God's people do.

    IFBReformer
     
  12. IfbReformer

    IfbReformer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2002
    Messages:
    708
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jailminister,

    Thanks for your comments. But the question is not
    "Is tithing a Heaven or Hell Issue?". The question is are Christians required to tithe?

    If you want to quote Malichi 3:10 and say it is speaking to the New Testament Church then then you must ignore Hebrews chapter 7 where it says
    with our new priest(Jesus Christ) there is a change of the law(and in two verses above it said
    the law required tithing for the levites) and later it says the former regulation is set aside.

    Read Hebrews 7 and read my article.

    Also if you believe Malichi 3:10 is for Christians then why don't we have to keep the sabbath(Saturday)? Why don't we have to keep the diatery laws?

    Let me know what you find.

    IFBReformer
     
  13. IfbReformer

    IfbReformer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2002
    Messages:
    708
    Likes Received:
    0
    I just want to add a little observation for at this point for you all:

    Except for a few people most of you have your own presupposition about tithing and have not even read how I came to my conclusions based on the scriptures.

    We may disgree about interpretation on some passages - but to not even look at the scriptures as whole is sad.

    To simply quote Malichi 3 and ignore the rest of the Bible - especially the New Testament is bad theology.

    Why do people whether in the Baptist churches or outside just not want to study things out for themselves? Why do people just want to be spoon fed at church and never search things out like the Bereans did in the book of Acts?

    Surely if the Bereans could check out if what Paul was saying was scriptural then we can do the
    same with our Pastors can't we?

    Just some thoughts

    IFBReformer
     
  14. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, there's a difference. There are Christians who elect to eat kosher foods, out of obedience to God's dietary guidelines . But adopting a kosher diet is not a requirement. Most Christians attend worship on Sundays out of obedience, but it is not required.

    I read the article. It does not affect my opinion.
     
  15. Jailminister

    Jailminister
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    ifbreformer, I did not just quote Mal 3 only. The important part of Mal passage is that by tithing God will bless you(windows of Heaven). I did not say it was law, it said if you to be blessed, then tithing should be done.

    Also, Here is where Jesus said that tihing is something we SHOULD do.

    Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

    Luk 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
     
  16. IfbReformer

    IfbReformer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2002
    Messages:
    708
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jailminister,

    Who was Jesus speaking to in Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42? Was he speaking to God's people under the Mosaic Covenant or God's people under the new Covenant of Grace?

    In Matthew 23:23, Jesus was speaking of "matters of law" pertaining to the Mosaic Law. Now certainly the moral law still applies to us today and is renforced in the New Testament Epistles.

    But tithing was not a part of the moral law, it was part of the governing(administrative) law for Israel.

    In Hebrews 7, Paul writes that "the law" required a tenth from the people but under are new high priest(Jesus Christ) there is a "change of the law". He tells us "The former regulation is set aside".

    Paul says that "Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give". It could not be anymore clear than that.

    I want to re-state something I stated in my article - I am not against Christians tithing or giving. In fact God wants us to give. My issue that we are not under the law and have to give an exact percentage.

    We are blessed when we give, but "giving to God" is not just giving to our local church. It is much more than that - it is giving to our children, it is helping the poor around us.

    And putting our God first does not equate to putting our local church first as is falsely taught in many churches today.

    IFBReformer
     
  17. Jailminister

    Jailminister
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jesus did not come here to convince the jews to just keep on doing what they were doing. He came here to tell them of a better way. He said they ought to tithe. Now if he did not mean that, then that was a waste of air and ink. He meant that for them and for us. Now if you don't want to teach your people to tithe, that is a responsibilty you must take on, but i just don't see it that way. He said we ought to, that is not law, but it is a strong recommendation.

    I do have a question for you though, Why is this so important to you?
     
  18. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Three most important rules in properly interpreting any Scripture (to be SURE we understand what God is saying and meaning):
    Can we list all of the NT Scriptures giving the detailed instructions to the Church (say from Acts thru Jude) that use the word "tithe" or "tithing" and see it in its NT CONTEXT.

    THEN we will be able to understand it.

    Thanks
     
  19. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,973
    Likes Received:
    129
    IBFR, we are on the same page but I am a bit concerned that you are taking the stance that if you are short one month then the place to cut expenses is the offering plate. Perhaps you need to cut your expenses in other ways. God has said He cares for us and will provide for our needs.

    To cut my planned giving because a unplanned expense came up may be acceptable in rare instanses but shouldn't become a practice. That would be putting God's ministry in last place on your budget, in my house my gift/tithe to God is on my first fruits. [​IMG]

    And part of the responsibility we have as members of a church is honoring the pastor, even to the point of double honor (1 Tim. 5:17), while this doesn't necessarily mean we pay him twice what he's worth [​IMG] it does mean we honor him by not short changing him or his ministry.

    Rob
     
  20. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Matthew 23:23 -
    Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

    Luke 11:42 -
    But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    That's it, Dr. Bob.... and I used KJV as my search for tithe and tithing.

    Diane

    New Testament Greek
    apodekatoo - pay tithe
    apodekatoo - tithe
    apodekatoo - give tithe
    apodekatoo - take tithe
    dekate - tithe

    Old Testament Hebrew
    ma`aser - tithe
    `asar - tithe


    Smith's Bible Dictionary

    Tithe or tenth,

    the proportion of property devoted to religious uses from very early times. Instances of the use of tithes are found prior to the appointment of the Levitical tithes under the law. In biblical history the two prominent instances are--

    Abram presenting the tenth of all his property, or rather of the spoils of his victory, to Melchizedek. (Genesis 14:20; Hebrews 7:2,6)
    Jacob, after his vision at Luz, devoting a tenth of all his property to God in case he should return home in safety (Genesis 28:22) The first enactment of the law in respect of tithe is the declaration that the tenth of all produce, as well as of flocks and cattle belongs to Jehovah and must be offered to him that the tithe was to be paid in kind, or, if redeemed, with an addition of one fifth to its value. (Leviticus 27:30-33) This tenth is ordered to be assigned to the Levites as the reward of their service, and it is ordered further that they are themselves to dedicate to the Lord a tenth of these receipts, which is to be devoted to the maintenance of the high priest. (Numbers 18:21-28) This legislation is modified or extended in the book of Deuteronomy, i.e. from thirty-eight to forty years later. Commands are given to the people--
    To bring their tithes, together with their votive and other offerings and first-fruits, to the chosen centre of worship, the metropolis, there to be eaten in festive celebration in company with their children their servants and the Levites. ( 12:5-18)
    All the produce of the soil was to be tithed every and these tithes with the firstlings of the flock and herd, were to be eaten in the metropolis.
    But in case of distance, permission is given to convert the produce into money, which is to be taken to the appointed place, and there laid out in the purchase of food for a festal celebration, in which the Levite is, by special command, to be included. ( 14:22-27)
    Then follows the direction that at the end of three years all the tithe of that year is to be gathered and laid up "within the gates" and that a festival is to be held of which the stranger, the fatherless and the widow together with the Levite, are to partake. Ibid. ( 5:28,29)
    Lastly it is ordered that after taking the tithe in each third year, "which is the year of tithing," an exculpatory declaration is to be made by every Israelite that he has done his best to fulfill the divine command, ( 26:12-14) From all this we gather-- (1) That one tenth of the whole produce of the soil was to be assigned for the maintenance of the Levites. (2) That out of this the Levites were to dedicate a tenth to God for the use of the high priest. (3) That a tithe, in all probability a second tithe, was to be applied to festival purposes. (4) That in every third year, either this festival tithe or a third tenth was to be eaten in company with the poor and the Levites. (These tithes in early times took the place of our modern taxes, us well as of gifts for the support of religious institutions. --ED.)
     

Share This Page

Loading...