Are Degree Mills Ethical?

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Rev. G, Jul 5, 2003.

  1. Rev. G

    Rev. G
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    Do you believe "degree mills" are ethical? Degree mills being "schools" where little attention is paid to scholarship, and one can quickly pass the course work in order to attain a "professional degree."

    Do you consider the following "real" schools or "degree mills"?

    - Trinity College of the Bible of Newburgh, Indiana
    - Andersonville Baptist Seminary of Camillia, Georgia
    - Louisiana Baptist University of Shreveport, Louisiana
    - Luther Rice Seminary
     
  2. Dr. Bob

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    Take a minute and check out the academic programs of each school. If they are "pay $100 and get a degree", you have a mill. They are out there.

    If they have entire programs of study, hundreds of hours of work per class, thesis and dissertations, summer residencies - then they are "University Without Walls" external study programs.

    Many schools are moving to that format now. Entire degrees can be earned from University of Phoenix on line, without stepping foot on campus. The whole concept of distance ed is expanding exponentially.

    Degree mills? A gajillion out there. Credible programs? A number of good ones out there, too.
     
  3. TomVols

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    Luther Rice is accredited by a CHEA recognized accrediting agency. Trinity is in the process of seeking regional accredtitation. Even if it wasn't, it is still a good school because it has a solid reputation in the academic community. I personally have some friends who have gotten a diploma from Andersonville and did little or nothing to get it, so I believe it definitely qualifies as a diploma mill, and I think John Bear and the other experts in this field agree. I have no first-hand knowledge of Louisiana Baptist, nor do I know of Bear's evaluation.
     
  4. GODzThunder

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    I do not know of two of the universities mentioned but I do know that Luther Rice is not a cheap university, so in that alone it is not an easy ticket. Also, the home study there is very hard and requires a great deal of study and memorization to pass.

    Trinity is less expensive but has a very hard council that reviews thesis work. If you pass their study you do earn your work.

    In all education though, especially home study, you get out of it what you put into it. There is an easy way out and there is also a door to more knowledge than Methusula's age. It is up to you and your interpertation of Timothy (study to show thyself approved unto God).
     
  5. ColoradoFB

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    The idea of an education is actually to learn something. The idea behind degree mills is to gain credentials one does not have. If the credentials have no substance behind them, I find them to be both dishonest and a rip-off.
     
  6. gb93433

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    Going to a degree mill may give you a degree on paper but it won't help you to have a temperature.

    Adegree mill sounds contrary to 2 Timothy 2:15, "Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

    2 Timothy 3:16,17, "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

    Part of the experience in education is being able to dialog with the professors and students.
     
  7. Jim1999

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    There was a laddie at college named Breeze,
    Weighed down with BAs and BDs.
    Said the doctor, "It's plain,
    You are killing yourself by degrees."

    A degreed person does not need to advertise, it should be evident when he/she opens one's mouth.

    In this sense, and hall of learning should add to one's knowledge, even if the course of study only gives direction.

    If the school only offers credentials, then I suggest the person's head will be as empty as it was before the credentials.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  8. Major B

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    Since Trinity has a rigorous program, since its professors all have advanced degrees from fully-accredited schools, since it has long been accredited by British universities, and since it is an official candidate for accreditation with the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools, I think that eliminates Trinity from the list.
     
  9. Pastor Larry

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    Are you sure you are not talking about Trinity Evangelical Divinity School of Deerfield IL??? The Trinity in Newburgh does not have a good reputation, so far as I know. I was talking about this with some pastor friends of mine week before last. One of them told me of a friend who worked there in the grading department. This person started grading stringently and was told not to ... that everyone who paid got an A. I have heard from other sources as well that Trinity in Newburgh is not worth the paper it is printed on.
     
  10. Major B

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    I am talking about Newburgh.

    I suppose it depends upon who you're talking to. I have talked with recent Southern grads who were advised by their profs to take their doctorates at Trinity Newburgh unless they were going into academia themselves. I personally know one of the deans, a genuine scholar (MDiv, ThM Talbot, PhD Westminster), and they are well on their way to regional accreditation.
     
  11. Pastor Larry

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    Interesting ... I have never heard anything positive about it but who knows ...
     
  12. TomVols

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    I've heard quite the opposite, Larry. A friend told me he submitted a paper to Trinity that he submitted to a very well established seminary that got him an A in a class there. It barely got him a C- at Trinity, and had extensive corrections on not only content but grammar as well.

    I've heard only good about Trinity. The fact that they are attempting to gain regional accreditation speaks well.
     
  13. Six-Principle Baptist

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    Trinity is one of those non-traditional schools that receives either strong support or strong condemnation. Many of the so-called "experts" in distance education don't like Trinity and called its acccreditation by the University of Liverpool deceptive. Luther Rice has TRACS accreditation. TRACS is recognized by the Department of Education as a legitimate accrediting agency. Louisiana Baptist University has a solid reputation and may seek regional or national acreditation.
     
  14. FMeekins

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    I've gotten a "B" on a Trinity assignment and a "A-" for a course grade.
     
  15. Major B

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    My profs are reallly picky about format in papers--"Either Turabian OR APA, please," and that does not seem indicative of low standards!

    I have one assignment (of five major ones) for my next course which is a 17-page paper (not including end notes, bibliography, etc.), and requiring 8 sources. Not an easy touch!
     
  16. Peter101

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    I believe that the low quality of education offered by diploma mills is a serious national problem. Some of the diploma mills are scams and are motivated only by money. Their unethical nature is matched only by the equally unethical nature of their customers. One way to check for the quality of an unknown school is to be sure that it is accredited by an accepted regional accrediting association, one that is accredits the state run universities of the same region. There are scam accrediting associations as well as scam colleges. The stated desire of a college to become accredited means nothing. It is something that is easy to say. If a school is not approved for federal aid to students, that is a warning flag. But some schools that are approved for federal aid can still be of terrible quality. Let the buyer beware.
     
  17. TomVols

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    Means nothing. As someone with experience as an educator, I can tell you that people have gotten B's and still gotten an A for a course. Depends on the weighing, the nature of the assignment, and the overall factors. Grading is strictly a professorial discretion for the most part and is anything but objective.
     
  18. Peter101

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    &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Since Trinity has a rigorous program, since its professors all have advanced degrees from fully-accredited schools, since it has long been accredited by British universities, and since it is an official candidate for accreditation with the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools, I think that eliminates Trinity from the list.&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

    I am skeptical of Trinity. The reasons are that it is not accredited by any of the regional associations in the U.S. and it is not approved by the U.S. government for financial aid.
     
  19. Xenos

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    After reading what others are saying, I agree with one post concerning just sending dollars to get a piece of paper with degree written on it is worthless.

    The Internet industry has been cost effective for many businesses including the world of distant learning. Living in the fast world has produce more effective ways to accomplish many things quickly that the traditional ways that would take time.

    Independent study will produce as much if not more knowledge for the student than the float with the class traditional study. Both have their pros and cons. In reality and in both methods, the volume of knowledge one may attain depends upon the commitment of the student.

    Being a professor in a Bible college that offers both methods of learning, I have seen the quality of education received depends upon the application of the student and their desire to know more of the truth.

    [email protected]
     
  20. Major B

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    Really slowly this time...


    Trinity is entering candidate status for accreditation with its regional accrediting agency.

    They have been working on it for a couple of years.

    I have two Masters degrees from fully-accredited institutions, both of which I attended on the GI Bill (one a secular degree in International Relations, and one a seminary degree). The grading standards at Trinity are HIGHER and the assignments are HARDER than they were at those fully-accredited institutions.

    As a public school teacher, I have taken courses recently from fully-accredited state universities. Again, those courses were far easier and the requirements far less than courses at Trinity.
     

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