Are God & Allah the same?

The word 'Allah' is used in every Arabic Bible and every Arabian Jew, Christian and Muslim uses the term 'Allah' where we would say 'God'. This has nothing to do with defending Islam but defending the use of the term 'Al-lah' to mean "The-God".

We don't have to 'agree' with 'tawhid' in order to 'agree' that the term Allah means 'The-God' in Arabic. You all are conflating derived attributes from Al-Qur'an with the term 'Allah'. Arabic Christians derive attributes from the Bible and define Allah in a similar fashion as any other group of Christians.

 

That is quite true. The word allah means god. The word "God" is used in almost every world religion, false religion, and cult in the world. If He is not the God of the Bible He is a false God. Paul made this very clear.

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

 

Which God?

Yes. Unfortunately, in my experience, this argument falls on deaf ears. It seems that the Muslims are just as convinced that we Christians are going to their Hell as we are convinced that they are going to the Biblical Hell.

What can we do? :tear:

 

Just be aware in the New Testament, Jesus is believed to cry before his death "ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI?” Eloi is the exact Arabic word "Elahi" which comes from the same root as Allah.

The word "Allah" is by far a more true term for the Almighty than our own German derived "Gott". I personally have no problem using it in dialogue with Muslims. To yield this word to them is a grave disservice.

 

This argument does not hold water. You must think in the same terms as they do. Every translation of the Koran that I have (whether English or some other language), always has the Arabic alongside it, for it was translated from the Arabic. I also have a Greek Interlinear with KJV beside it. As they translate from the Arabic our NT is translated from the Greek, not from the German. Your argument is moot; of no relevance. It doesn't matter what the German says. What matters is what the Greek says, and what does the Greek mean when the English word "God" is translated from the Greek.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

We define God through the revelation that is given to us through the Bible. We are able to have a personal relatonship with our God; the Muslims cannot. Our God is a personal God who cares for our every need; the God of Islam is very impersonal--he is aloof from mankind is fatalistic, even capricious and cruel. The two Gods are at polar extremes when compared to each other as defined by their respective holy books.

 

The Arab Bibles are based on the Van Dyck translation.

From my earlier link and why the ArabBible does not used the term allah.

It really was a translation error and disservice to use the arabic term allah for Jehovah God in the Arabic Bible. Allah is generic and can mean any god. Actually, allah was the main god that the arabs worshipped (and there were many of them, the moon god, his daughters, etc.) when Mohammed came on the scene. He chose allah to be the main god, the one god, which was a new concept for the arabic people since they had worshipped many gods. So, that is the background of the cry "allah akbar" shouted by muslims since the founding of islam through the centuries, meaning that allah is the greatest of the gods, which is entirely different from meaning the One True God.

 

What gets me is that most people seem to be forgetting that "god" is a title.

"God" does not imply deity, by itself.

Satan is the god of this age.

(This is not meant to imply that Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Father are not deity.)

But, context rules the day on the title.

The Arabic god is the God of Abraham.

Far removed by deception and lies and distortions.

How far removed does he have to be to no longer be the God?

Edited to add: Just because satan is god, does not mean that the Father is not also God. The two are not exclusive. The Christ is the god of the age to come. Does not mean that he's not deity right now.

 

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

There is only one God.

 

So, how about those of the Oneness doctrine?

How about non-Christian Jews?

 

Man's assertions and baseless claims means nothing. It is only what the Bible declares that counts:

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Isaiah 43:10-11 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isaiah 44:22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Isaiah 45:5-6 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

Isaiah 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Isaiah 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

There is only one God; are you convinced yet, or do you still need more Scripture?

 

So you are admitting that the 'origin' of the term doesn't matter but what meaning is applied to that term by the revelation? (i.e. Allah is not an arabic moon god just as Gott is not a germanic tribal war god)...

We could do the same thing with the term "Logos" (i.e. Word). It was a term taken from Platonism and used to express Jesus as the universal Nous (i.e. Divine Mind). All of the terms used which are not hebrew have pagan roots in every other language because you have to talk to other cultures with the terms they had to talk about the divine (i.e. Allah, Gott, Theos, Logos, etc). Everyone of these terms have their origin in pagan theology especially the Greek.

I agree. We can't judge cultures on the 'terms' they use to talk about God.

If you sat down with a sufi, my guess would be that he could express a very intimate relationship with God. As Al-Qur'an states "Allah is closer to you than your jugular vein"... You can't get more intimate than that.

Orthodox Theology expresses a very similar view of God's otherness and in fact describe God through two means Essence and Energies. They say we can't know God in His Essence but we experience God through His Energies. Islam would agree with this teaching especially the Sufis who also have a very sophisticated theology.

With regard to 'fatalism' I can't believe Calvinists would offer this as a point of criticism....

Be Well.

 

The difference here is that Mohammed and his Arabic moon god existed before the Koran. Greek existed before German existed. You are backwards in your logic. Mohammed chose his god before he wrote the Koran. It has its roots in paganism. We did not choose our God; He chose us and then revealed himself to us through His revelation.

Your accusation here is as silly as the Zorastians claim that they wrote part of the Old Testament. Words have meanings. What did John see in the Book of Revelation. To this day we are not entirely sure. Why? Because John could only describe what he saw in a very limited vocabulary. He had to use the words that he knew, the vocalbulary that he was limited to. It doesn't matter what the etymology of logos is. That is irrelevant. The fact that God used it, defined it, clarified what it meant for us, is what is important. And there is no confusion in the Bible that it has anything to do with platonism.

Then why are they so afraid to call God their father, and in fact say it is blasphemy to do so. God is so far off, so remote, that he is impersonal, not personal.
If you knew much about Islam, you would know that their theology comes from the Koran, not from Sufis. In fact Sufis are mystics that are generally rejected by the majority of orthodox Muslims. They arose because of the rigid orthodox teaching of Islam which is so strict and impersonal that it permeates every facet of your life even to the point of telling you the correct way to brush your teeth. With such an impersonal God and an impersonal religion, there were some that sought out a personal relationship. They were the mystics, called sufis. Every religion has this element among them. In Islam they are not well accepted. Thus your quote is not very valid as far as being theologically accepted.

I both disagree with your metaphysical definition of a Christian relationship with God, and of course your theological teaching in Islam concerning God. Theology doesn't come from Sufis. "Sufi-theology" is rejected by orthodox Islam. Their Theology comes from the Koran.

Ask a Calvinist.
Do the Calvinists believe that if you trust Christ as your Saviour, that God is cruel and capricious enough to send you to hell just because he feels like it or is in a bad mood, so to speak. Do the Calvinists believe that God is the author of evil? Do they believe that God is vindictive? Do they believe that no matter what a man may do in this life, if God wills, or feels like it he will cast you into hell anyway?
Is that their view of God? I think not.

 

Where have I suggested that 'Gott' predates 'theos' or German predates Greek? The only thing that I have suggested is that the English term 'God' derives from the German 'Gott' which has pagan roots just as theos, and Logos do. None of these terms would have had any uniquely 'Christian' affinity at the time of their usage by Christians just as Allah didn't.

I am not referring to the Book of Revelations but the Gospel of John. I'm not sure what relevance your comments concerning Revelations have here?

John's use of the Greek Logos was loaded with meaning for the pagan philosophy of the day in his time (Platonism). It is the use of this term which allowed for the the early Christian Writers to coin the Holy Trinity and yet say with a straight face that God is One in Essence. Do yourself a favor and google Platonism and see the similarities yourself... Read Plotinus' Ennead, particularly Book 6.

John's use of the Greek Logos and the other Middle-Platonist terminology suggested that he was 'very' familiar with Greek Philosophy as was Paul.

In Arabic, fatherhood is not understood in the more Roman and Greek legal sense used by Paul (adoption). Fatherhood, in Arabic and Arab Culture has a very 'physical' sense (i.e. copulation with creatures) which they find abhorrent. This sense of 'fatherhood' in the physical sense, is far too pagan for them to approve of it and their believe in God's infinity literally doesn't allow for the Godhead to 'manifest in the flesh' because such a creation cannot 'hold the infinite presence of the Almighty Creator of Heave and Earth'.

Sufism is also known as Classical Islam and if you studied Islam you would know that all of the Legal Schools of Islam also once had Sufi Schools. Only in the modern evolution of Islamic Fundamentalism of Wahabi Sects has Sufism been rejected and I dare say that one cannot assert that such groups are 'orthodox'. Orthodox Islam is Classical Islam and Classical Islam has deep roots in Sufi Legal Schools.

So now are you saying that 'Calvinist' doctrine teach that individuals determine their own salvation? What happened to God's Sovereignty? What happened to Unconditional Election? Islam is very similar to the kind of hard and soft Determinism found in many expressions of Calvinism.

Be Well.

 

In what verses of the Bible is "Allah" used to name the one true God?

 

Funny. I've encountered Baptist churches with the same attitude.

 

Funny.

You're the only one I can recall who has said anything about equating Chrstianity with Islam.

 

You are not making sense nor are you being logical. The "guess who used the word first" game is irrelevant. Words have meanings--in every language. We all use words and hopefully, more or less grammatically correct sentences that we may understand each other. God means god in whatever language you would like to translate it. I keep quoting Paul because he so clearly defines it for you:

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

There is only one God. You can translate the word; but it into a different language, define it with a different book or a different religion, but in the end there is only one God. There be many that are called gods; but there is only one God. Allah is an Arabic word meaning God, but there is only one God. Allah may be a "name" for the Muslim God, but still, there is only one God. Paul, cannot stress this point enough, and neither can I. There is only one God. It matters not how many languages or religions there may; there is only one God, and that God is defined within the parameters of the Bible.

The fact that we speak English is irrelevant also, since the NT was written in Greek. Our Bible is only a translation of the inspired autographs written by the apostles. If you were in India you would be reading the Hindi Scriptures and not be thinking of English at all, and thus German would have nothing to do with this discussion. It is not "germane" to the word "God," for it doesn't matter what language we find it in. God spoke to us in Hebrew and in Greek. And that is what matters most.

I was using the Book of Revelation as an example of John's limited vocabulary when describing things in heaven. He could only describe "undescribable things" in a very limited vocabulary that he possessed.

Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

It is doubtful that John had any study or familiarity with Greek philosophy. He was a simple fisherman. It was Paul that was a very highly educated man, not John. John, like the rest of the world, spoke Greek. It was the universal language of the day. Logos was a common word. We don't have to play the game again: "Guess who used it first?" It doesn't matter. The way the word is used is defined by John, and that is what is important. It has nothing to do with platonism and/or Greek philosophy. Satan has his own triniity. Are we going to start claiming that God made himself in the image of Satan. Just because pagans believe things that Christians do, does not require us to believe that our beliefs must come from paganism. Is not your faith any stronger than that?

Demonstrate or bring forth evidence of John's familiarity with Greek philosophy. This is just your guess work, and nothing else.

Therefore we are to conclude one of two things:
1. Because Islam doesn't approve of the fatherhood of God, because it is abhorrent to them. They can only think of it in physical terms. Thus their rejection of the pagan religions. "In the physical sense, is far too pagan for them to approve of it..." Therefore because they believe that when a Christian speaks of Christ, the son of God, that a "son of God," must be conceived physically, it is only logical for Christianity to be a pagan religion as well. According to the information you have given there is no difference between paganism and Christianity in the Muslim's eyes.
2. The infinite Godhead is also a heresy to the Muslim mind, making Christianity akin to paganism. And yet you insist that "god" is the same.

If you studied Islam you would know that there are some 87 sects of Islam, Sufism only being one of them. Sufism is not the orthodox Islam that is identified by the Koran and followed by the Sunnis and Shiites, the two main branches of Islam. Another popular sect of Islam are the Ahmedias, which is one sect that is persecuted by the Sunnis and Shiites. There is much division in Islam.

Even Calvinism teaches that God is a God of love.
Islam teaches that God is a fatalistic God. Fate (Kismet) is an essential doctrine of their faith. It is different than predestination. It is fate. Let me give you an example. In the mid-eighties, President Zia-ul Haq of Pakistan, his five generals, the American Ambassador and his secretary, were all shot down by a terrorist. It was reported later that some Muslims said: "It was the will of Allah." That is fatalism. If their president and the American Ambassador were kiiled by a terrorist then it must be God's will. That is not what Christianity teaches, not even Calvinism. It is never God's will for terrorism to take place. The Ten Commandments say "Thou shalt not kill." Is that not evident enough. But their fatalistic religion looks back and says because it happened it was God's will that it did happen. Allah caused it to happen. Allah is the author of both good and evil.
Tell me, does Calvinism really teach that? Calvinism teaches foreknowledge. It does not teach fatalism.