Are IFB churches unbiblical?

Me too and me neither. Never heard of them. Minor players.

 

Well the first thing you're supposed to do is use a little discernment, especially as it pertains to accepting anything that STT says.

I didn't say that stuff so your post is not necessary.

 

Joe Arthur is really Rush Limbaugh!

http://joearthurministries.com/

 

Shazzam! You're right!

 

I never heard of John of Japan before baptistboard. As far as most of the world knew, John R. Rice had his daughters and his spiritual lineage disappeared from there- at least none of them picked up the torch to anywhere near the same degree.

And you'd think that name, John of Japan, would be a common household name with the advantage of having the grandfather that you have- but even that did not make you well known.

Are you a minor player?

Have you ever spoken at the Sword conference?

I'm not sure you're even qualified to determine who is and who is not major and minor characters in the movement.

Maybe you are. Maybe you are a major player.

But many thousands gather at the SWORD every year in Walkertown and I never heard your name there.

Sheldon Smith- is he a minor player?

He does run the mag your grandfather once edited.


Or are major players just whoever YOU say they are?

Just curious. Maybe you are the arbiter of who is and who isn't.

 

I'd be amazed if you had!

I ran off to Japan. Ruined my career! :laugh: Missionaries are never household words in the homeland until they are dead.

Shucks, that would be a promotion. I'm not even a player.

Nope, and I'm quite sure I never will.

Relax. I just gave an opinion. Maybe you should take Tai Chi or something, learn to kick back.

 

He is beating a dead horse to another death, brother. I have known other people like this, they have the sin of pride and just won't stop attempting to pound home their philosophy....all it does is ruin their reputation with others, cause others to doubt their abilities....ya know?

 

Maybe we can barbecue the horse once he's done beating it (if it hasn't been dead too long). Had some smoked horse meat once in Japan. Pretty good, actually!

​

 

Yes for the tenth time.

 

Coming from the prespective of one who happens to be a Christian who attends and members in a local baptist church...

Think that biggest complaints would be regarding that at times IBF can be "KJVO" churches, that they can be caustic at times regarding Christians who don't agree with their seperation views, how far to take it, and that some try to trace their roots all way back to Apostoic age, and finally, some would see themselves as being the "true Baptists", as they hold to a non blibical model of there being no Universal, but JUST local assemblies/churches!

 

Well, okay- I did not see THAT OP I saw THIS one. I don't take time to read everything here. I have a wife, two jobs, school and a dog to attend to. :laugh:

 

I understand. But there are some guys in their hatred for me because I accost their beliefs who are misrepresenting what I have been saying terribly.

They have raised the dander on several folks who just took what they were saying to be true.

 

I've been reading thru this thread and I don't think that people have any hatred for you. We just sense an inordinate amount of anger in you. You call it anger against the ungodly doctrines that people supposedly hold. I am one of those who hold, in your view, the ungodly, heretical view of non-Calvinism. I don't hate you at all. I think you have an amazing God given intellect. But if your view of soteriology makes a person indignant and anger filled, I don't want it.

Now have at me! :tongue3:

 

I am genuinly surprised that more of you are not as familiar with the Sword brand of IFB as is claimed. Maybe more are familiar with it, but care not to admit it. I don't know. I do know that the Sword brand of IFB is what I have come across more frequently than not (though not as much here in Ohio as down South). My main beef with the Sword version of IFB is that (it seems to me) personal separation manifested through outward standards becomes one of the chief doctrines of the faith that we must "earnestly contend" for. That & the claim that they use the 1611 when everyone knows they do not. Just my 2 cents from the journey I have been on in this life. God bless.

 

OK, here are two claims. KJVOnlyism and legalistic dress codes. While I disagree with both stances I hardly find them heretical. How are these stances heretical?

BTW, I attended a Jack Hyles type IFB church in my early teens. And yes, I left it.

 

I don't believe I used the word heretical...but since you did - When outward dress standards are the measure of spirituality (as if they earn you merit before God), then... If the 1611 King James Bible is the only Bible that anyone can get saved out of anywhere in the world & the only Bible that those "right with God" use (as if the version of the Bible gives them brownie points with God & earns them a better place in Heaven), then...hhhhmmmmm. I'm not saying every IFB believes this, but I've run in to some that do. Whenever we think anything earns us brownie points with God apart from His grace, we are walking a fine line. We love that we are saved by grace, but after salvation some act as if their works alone keep them saved (or at least "right with God"). And, no, this is not just an IFB issue.

 

It depends on your definition of heresy. By most definitions those two things are not heresy.

 

More than 2 on the same subject.

If that kjvo is preaching that you can only get saved by using the kj, then yes.

If I use the same criteria that Luke is using to define "many," then definitely, yes.

There are over 9,300 independent fundamental baptist churches...and that's only the ones that are easily found on internet listings, such as the one you provided. The site you provided lists much less than that, and has a lot of duplicates and links to advertising sites. I had to go through three states to get 114 churches. Based on that ratio, there are approximately 1,900 churches listed on that site. Now, all it states for this site is that they use the KJ; it doesn't identify "KJVO." Let's say, just to be kind to your point, that there's about 75% that are KJVO. That gives us 1,425 that we're assuming are KJVO. Out of 9,300, that gives us a percentage of 15%.

Wasn't that easy? In the space of minutes, using known numbers and numbers you provided, I was able to give you a possibility of 15% KJVO in the IFB community. Accounting for those that aren't listed, we could easily bump that number up to 25%.

Now we just have to agree if 25% meets "many," a "large percentage," or some other hazy generalization that's been used, and we can do away with the hazy generalizations.

Then we can stop using the over-generalizations of "IFBers," focus on "kjv-onlies," and actually start talking about how to go about correcting this incorrect position.

Or, we can keep using hazy generalizations, quibble about who we're actually talking about, and basically spin in circles because we keep using terminology that doesn't correctly identify who we're talking about.

Whaddya say?