Are ILLEGALS Sinning?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by righteousdude2, Nov 29, 2013.

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Should Born-again Illegals Comply with 1 Peter 2:13-16?

  1. Yes, most definitely...

    10 vote(s)
    62.5%
  2. Yes, but with exceptions [please explain]

    2 vote(s)
    12.5%
  3. No, that Scripture does not pertain to illgal immigration...

    1 vote(s)
    6.3%
  4. Christian charity and love supercede 1 Peter 2:13-16...

    2 vote(s)
    12.5%
  5. Born-again believers here illegally should self-deport...

    5 vote(s)
    31.3%
  6. Illegal is illegal, no if's, and's or buts!

    7 vote(s)
    43.8%
  7. There are always exceptions to anything in the Bible [please explain]

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. You can't deport and separate children [born here] from parents...

    1 vote(s)
    6.3%
  9. No opinion!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. My answer for the poll was not here, SO, HERE IT IS!

    1 vote(s)
    6.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
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    Is it a SIN to be in America Illegally?

    There have been numerous OPs lately asking if something is a sin, or is it a sin to do such-and-such!

    I think all of these OPs are and as I read through the comments of others, I continue to see one or more board members quote 1 Peter 2:13-16 as Scirptural support for obeying the laws throughout the land the believer is living in and setting up a home! if Peter tells us, "Be willing to serve the people who have authority in this world. Do this for the Lord. Obey the king, the highest authority. And obey the leaders who are sent by the king. They are sent to punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do good. When you do good, you stop ignorant people from saying foolish things about you. This is what God wants. Live like free people, but don’t use your freedom as an excuse to do evil. Live as those who are serving God." (ERV) Should we interpret that to mean that those who have come across our borders illegally deserve to be punished [deported]?

    Of course, if the illegal is not a believer, they are still breaking the law, but even more so if they profess to be a Child of God! Should they be rewarded with empathy and allowedto stay and be granted a way to circumvent the very laws of this land?

    I would like your opinions, of illegal immigration based on the Scripture from 1 Peter, and is there a verse, or verses, that would quash what Peter says?

    Please remember to take the poll too! It will not make a hill of beans out of this dilemma, but it will give us a barometer of values regarding our opinions based on the Word of God!

    Shalom, and peace be unto you with His continued favor and blessings in the coming days!
     
    #1 righteousdude2, Nov 29, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2013
  2. Judith

    Judith
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    Yes they are sinning.
    First we need to stop the illegal entry. Second we need to stop this amnesty with the illegals already here. Our government’s lack of response as well as free goodies is part of the reason they keep coming and staying. Many have been here for many years and even brought illegal children with them, but they knew when they came they were breaking our laws. I propose the following.

    Require all employers to run legal resident checks on all employees and new hires as of a certain date. Make it an automatic 10,000 dollar fine for each illegal hire for anyone who hires an illegal or helps one in any way. Give every illegal 30 days to leave the US on their own or serve an automatic 5 year prison term and lose all possessions then deported.

    Our government holds a great deal of responsibility for them coming here and letting them stay so long? If there are those who want to stay and they have no criminal convictions including juvenile, offer them the possibility of registering like a sex offender, although not as one, for the rest of their life.

    They should have to register once a year and/or within 72 hours of any change of address and pay a 1000 dollar processing fee each time. They should never be allowed to become a citizen, hold any government office, local, state, or federal. Never be allowed to vote or own a weapon of any kind. They should be required to hold a job at all times, carry their own health insurance on themselves and their family and give proof of a retirement plan that will sustain them through old age.

    They should never be allowed to receive any government assistance for any reason. If they are ever arrested and convicted of a felony they would be automatically deported after they serve their sentence. If they violate any of these provisions they would be arrested and deported with no appeals.
     
  3. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
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    Seems to me it is dangerous to equate legality with sin. After all:

    It was legal for Stalin to deport people to Siberia. Most were not criminals, just not part of the "in" group.

    It was legal under German law to murder Jews, Gypsies, etc. in Nazi death camps.

    In these and other cases that could be cited I believe the law was sinful and those who carried out the law sinned.
     
  4. Reformed

    Reformed
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    Yes. They are sinning. Is the poor man who steals to provide for his family sinning? Yes. He is sinning by electing to steal. Both are guilty of a crime.

    Now, can we still display compassion, grace, and mercy on those who sin in such fashion? Certainly. If someone who is in this country illegally came into my church seeking food for their hungry children, I would provide food. I would not approve of their actions. I would proclaim Christ to them, but I would also call on them to do the right thing.

    As to the person who steals to provide for his family; I would counsel him to own up to his crime, but I would also seek to show grace to his family.

    We can call something sin while at the same time displaying love and grace.
     
  5. agedman

    agedman
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    Folks should demand the Statue of Liberty be destroyed!
    [​IMG]

    Boldly written on the pedestal of the statue. The pedestal that school children contributed penny's to have built.

    A statue that immigrants looked upon for generations with joy that they have arrived in the land of hope.

    A place in which dreams can become a reality, in which the children can become what they desire.


    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] With conquering limbs astride from land to land[/SIZE][/FONT].
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] Here at our sea-washed, sunset fates shall stand[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Mother of Exiles.
    From her beacon-hand[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.[/SIZE][/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] With silent lips.
    "Give me your tired, your poor,[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

    [/SIZE][/FONT]​
    [SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I have yet to meet the immigrant parents (legal or illegal) that did not work harder, longer, and with more determination to not only be successful, but to make certain their children would have better than they brought from the old country.

    It is usually not the first or second generation immigrant that is the problem, it is that third and following. It is those who cause the problems.

    Who to this land is not from "illegal" immigration stock?
    [/FONT][/SIZE]
     
  6. HankD

    HankD
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    Those were passive, they were fostered upon others.
    Illegals are actively sinning by willingly and actively breaking our laws.

    But to be sure, part of the blame is against the administration.

    There is also something to say about the fact that that one of the most impoverished nations on earth is just south of the border of the most affluent.

    World Vision anyone?
    How about you CBT? $30.00/month feeds a child.


    HankD
     
  7. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
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    Okay, active then.

    Was it a sin by Bonhoeffer and others to plan the assassination of Hitler? It was illegal.

    Was it a sin for Rosa Parks to refuse to sit in the back of the bus? It was illegal.

    Just samples. There are more that members of the board could list.
     
  8. nodak

    nodak
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    I live where illegal immigration is rampant and causing great problems.

    My extended family lives where it is out of control and causing grave problems.

    I voted yes, with exceptions.

    Here are my thoughts: if you want to enter this or any other nation, you should follow the legal path. Christians especially should conform to the law.

    But there are some exceptions I would allow: currently in Mexico, some folks that have opposed the drug cartels are fleeing for their lives. In cases where returning them home likely means certain death, they should cross our border (illegally if need be) and be able to immediately turn themselves in, find sanctuary, and be placed in legal refugee status. This would allow them to stay, work, and yet be returned home should the home country effectively deal with those issues.

    As to just throwing the border open because Mexico is in poverty? We simply cannot absorb the whole country. And when we try things like that, we reduce the likelihood an upset populace will actively work to change things in their home country. It is always easier to cut and run to where things are better. Since we cannot solve the problems of Mexico or any other country, we need to not interfere when natural consequences of bad policies make people upset enough to change those policies.

    Closing our borders would cause more short term suffering in Latin America, but could be very effective long term at actually reducing poverty and suffering.
     
  9. InTheLight

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    Those that say they are sinning, exactly what sin are they committing?
     
  10. Sapper Woody

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    It's very cut and dried, black and white. It is a sin to disobey a law UNLESS the law goes against God's word. Simple.
     
  11. Crabtownboy

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    Can you show me where in scripture legal or illegal aliens are mentioned?
     
  12. Sapper Woody

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    Can you show me in scripture where abortions are mentioned?
     
  13. nodak

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    Use a concordance and look up "stranger among you."

    That corresponds to alien or foreigner, another term to see in a concordance.

    You will find indeed rules for aliens to Israel, including the willingness to live by the law of the land. Illegal aliens cannot be living by the law of the land, as they entered illegally.

    Their sin is failure to obey a law that does not (generally) disobey God's law. But if a life is truly at stake, and if we offered refugee status, they would have a way to make it right.
     
  14. Crabtownboy

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    I'd say your question is a bit off topic. There is only one verse that comes close to mentioning abortions and it comes down on the side of the mother, not the unborn infant.

    As, as far as I know, there were no doctors as such and thus no medically induced abortions the scripture is silent on this issue.

    Now, will you answer my question on where scripture speaks aliens, legal or illegal?

     
  15. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus
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    The OP brings up a valid verse from Peter's work, and there are others that could just as easily be cited to support the point. Specifically here in thinking of Romans 13 and Hebrews 13. The challenge for the believer is that we are to obey those who are over us and the laws they write.

    Of course the exception is when a specific rule is contrary to the will and ways of God.

    Illegal immigration isn't an inherent Christian obligation.

    We have a large Hispanic ministry that is part of our church. It is growing and we're seeing lives changed through Jesus. We get this question quite a bit. Our pastor who works directly with this ministry has to tread lighty at times. We counsel illegals that as followers of Christ they need to follow the laws of whatever land they live in. I do think being a knowing illegal immigrant is sin.
     
  16. Sapper Woody

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    Your response is exactly what I was looking for, and you made my point. There's nothing in scripture about abortion, yet we know it's wrong. There's nothing in scripture about illegal immigration, yet we know it's wrong. You used a fallable argument, and I was exposing it. It was perfectly on topic to make a valid point.
     
  17. Sapper Woody

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    I agree. In a ministry like that, I think I would tell people to not tell me if they were illegal, that way I wouldn't be under any obligation to report them. All the while stressing that if they were illegal, that they need to get right in order for them to grow spiritually.
     
  18. Crabtownboy

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    I do not know it is wrong for a man or woman to try to get out of a country where they are in grave danger. My guess you would try to leave just as I would. I would not make a blanket statement as you did.

    Remember in Matthew at the last judgment:

     
  19. Sapper Woody

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    It isn't wrong to try to get OUT of ANY country for ANY reason. But it's wrong to go INTO a country illegally or deceptively (barring missionaries entering a closed country, as not going in would violate the great commission) is sin.

    As far as Matthew, I'm happy to take in strangers. If they come in legally. It's like your house. If someone knocks on the door, you'll probably invite them in. But if they break in through a window, you want them out.
     
  20. HankD

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    I'm not denying the facts you have mentioned.

    You can even find scriptural references as examples - was it a sin for Rahab to deceive the law enforcement agents concerninhg the Hebrew spies.

    Was it wrong for the midwives to lie about the Hebrew women when sparing the Hebrew male children?

    But the O/P concerns a cut and dry question.

    When we violate the traffic laws we go against the ordinances of the govenor.

    Sometimes its a quandry. I do admit.

    HankD
     

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