1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Are KJV's italicized words inspired?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Logos1560, Apr 7, 2005.

  1. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,362
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Logos 1560: Did the KJV translators always put words they added in italics? Are there any words in present editions of the KJV that were not in italics in the 1611 edition?

    I don't think the KJVOs wanna answer, so lemme point out some...All those "GOD FORBIDS", for starters.
     
  2. Slambo

    Slambo New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    0
    What about all of the words that other translators didn't italicize???? At least the KJV translators were honest enough to put them in italics....
     
  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,490
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Not all of them, and not consistently. There are words italicized in the 1611 that aren't italicized in the 1762/1769 and vice versa. [​IMG]
     
  4. Slambo

    Slambo New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's just my point...They curse the KJV translators for using italics....It just shows how tired that junk is!!!
     
  5. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,217
    Likes Received:
    406
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That's correct.

    In his book entitled OLD BIBLES, J. R. Dore presented a table with the number of words in italics in the Gospel of Matthew in some KJV editions.

    Dore reported that the 1611 edition of the KJV has only 43 words in italics in the Gospel of Matthew. The 1629 Cambridge edition has 165 words in italics in the Gospel of Matthew. The 1638 Cambridge edition has 224 words in italics while the 1762 Cambridge edition has 352 words in italics in the Gospel of Matthew (p. 340).
     
  6. natters

    natters New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2004
    Messages:
    2,496
    Likes Received:
    0
    Who has cursed the KJV translators for using italics?
     
  7. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2003
    Messages:
    2,364
    Likes Received:
    0
    No one ever backslid because they believed, trusted, and obeyed the italicized words.

    lacy
     
  8. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    No one ever backslid because they believed, trusted, and obeyed the translator footnotes.
    At least i have no example of if [​IMG]
     
  9. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,217
    Likes Received:
    406
    Faith:
    Baptist
    How do you know? Are you omniscient? Can you prove your statement? Are you sure that there are no people who hold the KJV-only theory that have ever backslide?
     
  10. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    5,013
    Likes Received:
    0
    I backslid, sure nuff. So at least we know that being KJVO will not make you perfect. But I don't think that was what Lacy was saying, now was it.
     
  11. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    0
    How do you know? Are you omniscient? Can you prove your statement? Are you sure that there are no people who hold the KJV-only theory that have ever backslide? </font>[/QUOTE]It is quite plain to me that Bro. Lacy said what he said and it is true whether you like it or not.

    I will even go so far as to say that there has never been anybody who has believed, trusted and obeyed the KJV as a whole who has backslid.

    Get it Logos? believed...trusted...obeyed. Let it sink in for a minute, okay?

    I, also backslid. But it was that believed, trusted, obeyed part that got me. I didn't! And boy did I pay for it! Backslid so hard and so far, I STILL have road rash. [​IMG]

    But God is good. All one must do is believe, trust and obey and you will hear, "Well done thou good and faithful servant, welcome home." (I am getting way off topic, sorry [​IMG] )

    Are the italicized words inspired? I believe they are every bit as inspired as the rest of His words.

    I can say, "como esta?" or "como esta usted?", and it still means "How are you?"

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  12. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I didn't read through the entire thread but here is my opinion:

    If the italicised words are necessary to carry forth the exact meaning of the Greek or Hebrew of the original language text then the italicised English words have the status of derived inspiration.

    HankD
     
  13. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,362
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thing is, Jim, the italicized words are not GOD'S words. They are clarifying words added by the translators, given the differences in English and the sources translated into English. And I believe you realize that different translators make differing translations. The AV just happens to be the work of one given group of translators, just as the Geneva is, or the NASV. ALL have clarifiers added where necessary to make the English understandable by English readers. But are they inspired in the KJV? No, not any more than they are in any other valid English version.
     
  14. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,217
    Likes Received:
    406
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Perhaps you can explain why William Tyndale, in effect the primary translator of the KJV
    who was guided by the Holy Spirit in his translating, did not add all the words in italics that are found in the KJV.

    At 1 Cor. 14:4a, Tyndale's, Coverdale's, Matthew's, and Taverner's Bibles all have:
    "He that speaketh with tongues."

    At 1 Cor. 14:4a, the Great Bible has:
    "He that speaketh with the tongue."

    At 1 Cor. 14:4a, the 1557 Whittingham's and
    1560 Geneva has: "He that speaketh strange
    language" [with the strange in italics and used with the meaning foreign].

    At 1 Cor. 14:4a, the Bishops' Bible has
    "He that speaketh with an unknown tongue."
    The KJV followed the Bishops' Bible in adding
    the word "unknown" in italics at this verse.
    "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue."

    Is your belief implying that new or additional revelation or a second inspiration was given in
    1568 or 1611 when the word "unknown" was added
    in italics?
     
  15. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2003
    Messages:
    2,364
    Likes Received:
    0
    Get me a Labradore and I'll retrieve it!
    :D

    Lacy
     
  16. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    0
    What Hank said. :D

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  17. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,362
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Is a Labrador Retriever one who retrieves Labrador if it gets lost?

    Is it a retriever in Labrador who will find anything you lose in Labrador??

    If you hunt with a Lab, do you look for Science Projects to perform?

    Do you shoot Canadian geese with a Labrador Gun Dog, which goes "arf!" instead of "BOOM!"?
     
  18. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just an FYI for clarification.

    They are called Canada geese, not Canadian. Trust a westerner to know the difference. :D ;) [​IMG] [​IMG]

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  19. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,362
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thanx, Jim...but tell me...Do they switch citizenship at the border?
     
  20. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes. But only as long as they are in America. They are called America geese.
    When they finally get to Mexico they become Mexico geese.
    BTW; These are the best tasting. I think it is because they are "seasoned" just right by then! LOL

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
Loading...