Are laymembers permitted to teach in the assembly?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Frogman, Oct 13, 2003.

  1. Frogman

    Frogman
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    What are the scriptural duties of an Elder?
    Of a Deacon?
    May a laymember teach in the assembly? If so, what, if any are the qualifications? Would these be scripturally equal to those of a preaching/teaching Elder? Or of a Deacon?

    Bro. Dallas
     
  2. Dr. Bob

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    If someone is gifted to teach and thus recognized by the congregation, why WOULDN'T he be allowed to teach?
     
  3. Ben W

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    People are given Spiritual Gifts, some are called to be teachers, others Evangalists, Pastors etc.

    All have a valid claim on the Pulpit, the Teachers and the evangalists more so than the pastor who is there to shepherd the flock which is a role of visitation and counselling.
     
  4. Matt Black

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    I thought we believed in the priesthood of all believers; why then seek to reintroduce hierarchical clergy/ laity divisions when it comes to the pulpit - or indeed anything else?

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  5. Frogman

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    Come on guys, my question wasn't that hard.

    Ok, then, is any person teaching in the assembly subject to the same qualifications found in scripture for preachers and deacons?

    Is that liberally strict enough for your guys :D ?

    Does scripture alone give an example of a laymember teaching? If not, then I am not introducing an hierarchy of anykind, but am practicing according to what scripture allows. Before you sprinkle gasoline on me, I have an incident in mind, so focus on what is found in scripture not what you think I am trying to build.

    Ben, T.P. Simmons disagrees with you. He beleives the Bible shows the most important role of a pastor is teaching.


    Thanks for your considerations.

    Bro. Dallas.

    [ October 14, 2003, 07:38 AM: Message edited by: Frogman ]
     
  6. Matt Black

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    Surely the most important point is that the person is good at it and of good moral fibre; in our church, I've been asked to teach/ preach and I hold no formal 'title'/ 'status', our minister however does rightly insist on what he calls 'character and calling', character being the more important

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  7. Frogman

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    Brother Matt,
    I am also an unordained preacher.

    Thanks for your assistance. Was Apollos maybe such a teacher?

    Would such a teacher be one who is married/remarried?

    Is zeal always a good thing?

    Bro. Dallas
     
  8. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    No one other than the pastor has a "claim" to the pulpit or teaching ministry of the church. The church has called him to that role and given him the responsibility. He is to protect the flock from false teachers and the way that is done is by guarding the teaching ministry. The wise pastor will be carrying our 2 Tim 2:2 (training others to teach). He will not allow anyone unqualified to teach (in terms of character, doctrine, and giftedness). The pastor is to be a teacher. That is his primary role ... instruction and training. Visitation is never mentioned in Scripture as a pastoral responsibility. "Having charge," "teaching," "ruling," "caring for," "guarding" all are mentioned as well as others.

    Qualified laymen not only are permitted to teach, they should be encouraged and perhaps just short of demanded to teach. That is their gift. If the pastor is not fanning the flame of that gift by training and giving them opportunities, then he is hurting them and the body both.

    But all teaching ministry in the church is to be carried out under the direction and supervision of the pastor.
     
  9. Matt Black

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    Agreed with both of you gentlemen. Pauls instructions were delivered at a particularly trying time for the church when it needed to combat false teaching such as gnosticism, so definitely the pastor is to ensure that sound doctrine is maintained. Not sure people need to be married though...

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  10. Pastor Larry

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    No, marriage is never a qualification for teaching in teh church. Knowledge, character, and giftedness are.

    Yes, but zeal alone is never good. One must have the necessary gifts to go along with that zeal.
     
  11. Taufgesinnter

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    I agree with the thread so far. I just wanted to add that the qualifications for bishop and deacon are those I think every Christian should meet as an ideal. I think Paul listed them because many fall short in actual practice and he was ensuring someone with a consistent Christian walk would fill those offices.
     
  12. Frogman

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    The last post is my point. If a Pastor is fulfilling a primary role of teacher, and his qualification is a husband of one wife, then what are the implications for any other who may be invited to teach?

    Would they not be equal?

    This of course is assuming that 'one wife' means having been married only 'once'.

    So, this may really be the core of our difference in this.

    Thanks for the responses so far. Providing much food for thought.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  13. aefting

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    A Pastor holds a Biblically recognized office that comes with God ordained qualifications. A Pastor must not only teach but also oversee and lead the flock. A guest lay preacher, while speaking authoritatively because he is proclaiming God's words, does not have these responsibilites nor does he hold that office.


    In our church, for example, we would not allow a divorced man to be a pastor or deacon but we would allow (and have had) a divorced layman to preach and teach.

    I do agree that all men in the church ought to strive to have the qualities that would qualify them for service as a pastor or deacon.

    Andy
     
  14. Pastor Larry

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    It doesn't. It means morally faithful or morally pure. It means "One woman man," i.e., a man that is characterized by purity, not a womanizer or a flirt.
     
  15. Frogman

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    This is the core of our difference Larry. I believe it is common sense that a man ought/should have only one wife at a time. What does Paul mean in 1 Cor. 7.10 & 11?

    10  ¶ And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord , Let not the wife depart from her husband:
    11  But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.


    Note the difference in the statement of vs. 10 and vs. 12:

    12   But to the rest speak I , not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away

    [emphasis mine].

    Bro. Dallas
     
  16. Pastor Larry

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    How is that a difference?? I believe the same thing. However, that was not the question. In 1 Tim 3, Paul is not addressing how many wives a man has. He is addressing what kind of man he should be. The answer is: He should be a one woman man. There should be no hint of womanizing or immorality. He should not be a flirt. He should not be too friendly with the ladies. He should be above board in his relationships with the opposite sex.

    He is addressing marriage and divorce. If a couple divorces, they should remain divorced or remarry each other. A believer has no right to divorce his/her partner just becuase he/she is an unbeliever. If the unbeliever wishes to stay married, then they are to remain married. However, as he makes clear in the following verses, if an unbelieving partner leaves, the believing partner is not bound. As he says in v. 28, if they remarry they have not sinned. However, since this thread is about something else, we should probably keep it to that.
     
  17. Frogman

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    Ok, thanks for keeping me on task. So, the original question is if laymember are permitted to teach in the assembly. And if so what are the qualifications.

    So far we have, to the best of my memory:

    1. Yes; laymembers are permitted and should be encouaged.
    2. Qualification limited to ability and desire.

    Am I leaving anything out that has been posted?

    Bro. Dallas
     
  18. Matt Black

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    Character?

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  19. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    As Matt pointed out, Character is an important qualification.
     
  20. Frogman

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    Ok, sorry for the omission. Does Scripture and Baptist history support any Biblical reason for divorce? Is not it said in scripture that entering into remarriage is adultery? Is such a person then qualified to teach? Though they possess a Godly zeal, does not the example of at the very least the question of the circumstances bring into question whether this individual is of correct character?

    Didn't the current accepted belief concerning divorce begin with Erasmus?

    Isn't death the only scripturally given means of absolving a marriage?

    Just some questions that would help me to understand why I would be wrong in my belief concerning this.

    Thanks for all the discourse.

    Bro. Dallas
     

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