Are Non-Christians Saved?

How can a non christian be saved? Salvation is only through Jesus, no other way. Being saved means being a christian.

 

Who is deceptive?
Go right to the source.

Sounds like the Catholic Church is saying that you can't be saved unless you go through the Catholic Church.

 

The Romanists like to have it both ways as usual. They say that "outside the RC church there is no salvation" yet they dont have the guts to tell those that are outside that they are doomed.

 

Some folks might ought to actually read the article that was linked to before saying that Catholics believe only Catholics can go to heaven! Never mind that it is on Belief.net. The man who wrote it is now pope, is he not?




At any rate, my original suggestion that there might be non-Christians in heaven was concerning those who die in infancy. Do you believe there will be babies in hell? Of course they never had a chance to hear the gospel preached or accept Christ.... so I guess that clinches it, huh? Too bad....

 

No Jesus, know hell;
Know Jesus, know heaven!

It's pretty simple. There is no universal Fatherhood of God. If you don't know Christ as your Saviour, you will die in your sins.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:16-18)

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36)

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John 14:6)

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. (Acts 4:12)

 

HP: Egg on my face! I have to admit that when the question was raised I was not even considering infants. Yes. I believe their will be non-Christians in heaven!

I may be slow, but I do catch on.:smilewinkgrin:

 

Originally Posted by The Galatian
[/b]

You may be sincere but dreadfully wrong. One thing you can do, is to find the people who misled you about this, and tell them that they are not very good Christians, if they feel the need to deceive others about their fellow Christians.

How sad. When people try to push other people away from God, they only succeed in removing God from their lives.

Looking below, it appears that you are.

Quote:
Whosoevr, therfore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by God through Jesus Christ, would refuse to enter her or to remain in her could not be saved.
First, you must remember the "Holy Catholic Church" is all Chrstians, not merely the Roman Catholic Church. This is why most Protestants still accept the Nicene Creed; the Catholic Church includes them, too. But you already knew that, didn't you?

They are fully incorporated into the society of the Church who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept her entire system and all the means of salvation given to her, and through union with visible structure are joined to Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. This joining is effected by the bonds of professed faith, of the sacraments, of ecclesiastical government, and of communion. (Documents of Vatican II, Chapter 2, #14)
Doesn't say that anyone isn't saved who isn't Roman Catholic, does it? You couldn't find anything by the Roman Catholic Church saying so, so you found something you hoped might be so construed. How sad.

Sounds like you don't like what the Church teaches about non-RC Christians, so you tried to pull one over on us. Didn't work.

Here, the commentary by the Church on Lumen Gentium, from Vatican II:

"The Catholic Church professes that it is the one, holy catholic and apostolic Church of Christ; this it does not and could not deny. But in its Constitution the Church now solemnly acknowledges that the Holy Ghost is truly active in the churches and communities separated from itself. To these other Christian Churches the Catholic Church is bound in many ways: through reverence for God's word in the Scriptures; through the fact of baptism; through other sacraments which they recognize."

5. The non-Christian may not be blamed for his ignorance of Christ and his Church; salvation is open to him also, if he seeks God sincerely and if he follows the commands of his conscience, for through this means the Holy Ghost acts upon all men; this divine action is not confined within the limited boundaries of the visible Church."
http://www.religioustolerance.org/rcc_salv.htm

Those of you who spread false stories about your fellow Christians, go and sin no more.

 

I find it funny and in the same sense sad how these fundy's believe that they're somehow experts in all things Catholic, "...but I was Catholic when I was 5 years old, so I know more..."

It's just as sad that they tend to have monopolized salvation, like God had His hands tied for 1500 years until Martin Luther somehow figured it all out...

 

Are you applying that to yourself?

Sorry, that doesn't apply to me any more--a former Catholic. I am not ruled through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops (Ugh!!). I have nothing to do with them. This alone indicates that only those conected with the Catholic Church can be saved. Those outside of its hierarchy are not saved.

 

If you don't even know the fundamental teachings of the Catholic Church, how can you claim to know it at all?

More specifically, as you saw above the Roman Catholic Church states that they can be saved. And you know, I bet they know more about Catholic doctrine than you do. No matter what you want Catholics to believe, they still get to decide.

You don't accept Baptism? For Catholics, there is the doctrine of "Baptism by Desire" in which merely accepting God is sufficient. Hence, Jesus told the Good Thief that he would that day be with Him in paradise. Since you missed it the first time, I'll post it again...

"The Catholic Church professes that it is the one, holy catholic and apostolic Church of Christ; this it does not and could not deny. But in its Constitution the Church now solemnly acknowledges that the Holy Ghost is truly active in the churches and communities separated from itself. To these other Christian Churches the Catholic Church is bound in many ways: through reverence for God's word in the Scriptures; through the fact of baptism; through other sacraments which they recognize."

5. The non-Christian may not be blamed for his ignorance of Christ and his Church; salvation is open to him also, if he seeks God sincerely and if he follows the commands of his conscience, for through this means the Holy Ghost acts upon all men; this divine action is not confined within the limited boundaries of the visible Church."
http://www.religioustolerance.org/rcc_salv.htm

You've confused the Catholic church (universal body of Christians) with the Roman Catholic chuch (one denomination of Christians)

You've confused the fact that all can be saved, with the idea that all will be saved. But by now, hopefully you've read what the Roman Catholic Church says, and will refrain from any further statements that are not true.

 

Barbarian suggests:
Those of you who spread false stories about your fellow Christians, go and sin no more.

I don't remember spreading any falsehoods about other Christian denominations, but if you can show me, I'll be pleased to apologize.

"The Catholic Church professes that it is the one, holy catholic and apostolic Church of Christ; this it does not and could not deny. But in its Constitution the Church now solemnly acknowledges that the Holy Ghost is truly active in the churches and communities separated from itself. To these other Christian Churches the Catholic Church is bound in many ways: through reverence for God's word in the Scriptures; through the fact of baptism; through other sacraments which they recognize."

5. The non-Christian may not be blamed for his ignorance of Christ and his Church; salvation is open to him also, if he seeks God sincerely and if he follows the commands of his conscience, for through this means the Holy Ghost acts upon all men; this divine action is not confined within the limited boundaries of the visible Church."
http://www.religioustolerance.org/rcc_salv.htm

If you sincerely could not find God in the Church, and found Him in whatever denomination you now accept, then you are not lost. The doctrine of "Invincible Ignoraince" (meaning one cannot believe for whatever reason) says that one cannot be condemned to Hell for trying to do God's will.

As you just learned, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that one does not have to be a Roman Catholic to be saved. I'm pleased you found God somewhere, and I wouldn't change that for anything. But I'm a bit disappointed that your spiritual state will not yet let you find your peace with your fellow Christians.

 

that's just a whole lot different than what the Bible says, Galatian. It says that there is no other name under heaven other than Christ Jesus by which a man can be saved.

It says that you must believe in Christ for salvation. Christ says He is the way, the Truth, and the Life and no one comes to the Father but through Him.

If your quotes from the religious tolerance site are accurate regarding the current teachings of the RC church, then they are calling themselves liars in the past, for historically if you were not part of the RC church, they condemned you to hell.

Makes me wonder if the RC religion is not trying to position itself to be the head of the coming one world religion....

 

As I mentioned, Jesus told the Good Thief that a simple act of faith was sufficient. This is the Christian "Baptism of Desire."

Then you're one with Roman Catholics on that issue. I'm guessing you also accept the reality of Baptism of Desire, since Jesus Himself advocates it.

Well, I'm pleased you accept that. OK, sarcasm off. That was unkind. Did you see the part I posted about Jesus being the only way? That's what the Catholic Church has always taught. It's in our Bible. We believe it. It's the foundation of our faith, as it is of yours.

And Protestants did so, too. Luther advocated what later became the "Final Solution" for Jews in Hitler's Germany. And Calvin thought God wanted him to burn people alive, if they disagreed with Calvin's theology. The quote, of course, is from the Roman Catholic Church's explaination of "Lumen Genitum", from Vatican II.

And just so I don't get too holier-than-thou, there are dissidents who have separated themselves from the Roman Catholic Church on just this issue. They hate the idea that you can be saved as much as we can. We have our share of that kind, also. Don't let my bluntness put you off; I mean this to be friendly and open to you and your concerns.

I would be dishonest if I pretended racial hatred and torture were still part of Protestant denominations. So too, is it dishonest to misrepresent what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Don't let such temptations take you; focus on God.

You really believe that, Helen? You're a bit prickly, but you aren't dishonest. Let it go. Catholics and Protestants have been bashing each other for too long, mostly as you see here, on false premises. We need to put an end to it.
In God's name, let's put such terrible things aside.

(edited for such tactfulness as this sinner can manage)

 

And Galatian was saying.......

 

Barbarian was merely quoting what the Roman Catholic Church says about non Catholics being saved. The official position is that they can be saved as Roman Catholics can.

The quote you posted shows that Roman Catholics differ with Protestants on some things, but as anyone can see, they don't say that Protestants can't be saved. Quite the contrary, as you saw, it is the belief of Roman Catholics and the teaching of our denomination that Protestants can be saved.

I assume you will now leave off your false witness?

 

How can it be false witness when he's quoting the Pope?????

 

What false witness:

it must be given concrete and visible form through entry…into the Catholic Church our visible sacrament of salvation.”

you don’t just invite someone to become a Christian, you invite them to become Catholics
(Why: that is the only way to salvation of course)

[FONT=&quot]So as Catholics…our job is to use this remaining decade evangelizing everyone we can into the Catholic Church, into the body of Christ and into the third millennium of Catholic history.
(body of Christ = Catholic Church in this context)


[/FONT]

 

When he misrepresents the Pope's words to try to construe them as a statement that Non-Catholics are not saved, it is the worst kind of false witness.

And yet, he will not accept a direct statement from the Catholic Church that non-Catholics can be saved.

Pretty obvious, um?

 

DHK, you have seen from the Roman Catholic Church, a statement that expressly confirms the validity of other denominations, and says they can be saved.

Yet you persist in your false witness.

When you learn to love God more than you hate Roman Catholics, you will accept the truth.

May His grace which heals all things, be with you.