Are Old Fashioned Baptist Churches shrinking?

That's the point... there are very few, if any, that are doing what you describe. And then they turn around and say that the reason they are not growing is because they are not compromising... hogwash.

They are not growing because they refuse to move from their comfort zones of age old traditions.

 

Stop proving to me that you are missing the point and GET THE POINT!

 

As stated before, I pastor newly planted "old fashioned" church. We are seeing people saved and baptized on a regular basis, but your logic of "look at the numbers" is not what I am concerned with. We need to be careful about using pragmatic approaches to ministry. By doing whatever works to get a crowd, we loose the purpose of our churches.

Of course I want to see our church grow in number. I am seeing that, but more importantly, I want to see those that are here grow more into the image of Christ. Choosing methods solely on the basis of their ability to draw large numbers is a dangerous ministry model.

 

Are felt-boards ok? What about drama? Music? Visual art of any kind?

 

I guess we can add "don't think for ourselves","church killers", and "folks who make Jesus stand" to "ridiculous".

 

Rufus, no one is saying that. Well... at least I'm not.

I was raised in what I would consider an "Old-fashioned" baptist church. And I thank God for it. But I also see the need to fashion worship and methods to the culture that surrounds us, leaving the message completely intact.

 

On drama...show me where Jesus Christ played the role of an actor or commisioned his disciples to reach people by acting.

On music...music is called for in scripture for the edification and worship of God but is not described as a tool for reaching the lost.

Visual art...I believe any representation of the Godhead through art is explicitly forbidden. As to other artwork much of the religious artwork that is in play today was comissioned by the Roman Catholic Church and much of it contains embeds that are quite wicked. For me, I would prefer to leave the graven images to the Pope and those who desire to follow him.

 

Is the message completely intact? Was there not a difference in your "Old-Fashioned" Baptist church versus the progressive one? The central message may be the same but there must be a difference between the two and thus, there must be a change in the message no?

 

One more thing...and this is not focused on Joshua necessarily...have ya'll considered that maybe part of the reason "Old-Fashioned Baptist Churches" are shrinking is because ya'll are leaving them behind for new ways of doing church? When you say that "Old-Fashioned Baptist Churches" are not culturally relevant does this not mean they aren't relevant to you?

 

That is horrible logic and Bible interpretation to decide if something is unbiblical.


Show me where music is condemned? Show me where drama is inherently evil? Show me where Jesus used a pulpit? Show me where Jesus used a publisher? show me where Jesus did most of the stuff that church's do! Does that make them all unbiblical!!!! Please don't be teaching this stuff!!!

 

"cultures" within the culture of the United States are not equivilent to moving into a culture in another country. It isnt necessary to cater to gen x or postmodernism. A gen xer can understand the message preached in an old fashion church. They may not like the music but they understand it. Just because someone claims being offended at a lack of "cultural" understanding doesnt mean it is true. In many cases it is rebellion. They just want the gospel message delivered their way. The rich ruler tried that. Jesus didnt cowar down to it.

A gen xer or post modern can get saved under an old fashioned gospel message being preached the same as anyone else. Conforming to subcultures are unnecessary.

 

I beleive the thing that makes our church "Old Fashioned" is our literal application of Biblical principles to our daily lives and our ministry. I use new methods, and illustrations to help make Bible truth clear to my listeners.

If you can believe it, I even have stopped recording sermons on tape and now use a computer to record mp3 audio! :laugh:

The real difference is our application of Scripture to the methods we choose. There is nothing wrong with using a whiteboard, or projector. I have used both from time to time, but there is something wrong with incorporating worldly elements of our culture into our services.

We may reach more people, but what are we reaching them to?

 

just stop.....please just stop. :BangHead: sit in your little church and refuse to tend to the hard and rocky soil. thats a cheap way to love people. that is, to insist they should "understand" your style. PLEASE don't mention Jesus as having that attitude.

 

What you fail to understand is that it isnt about anybodies style. Christ said he will build the church. Not you, me or anyones style. Styles do not lead people to the Lord. that idea comes from human sentiment not the Bible. We cannot find it in ourselves to come to God. And we cannot find it in ourselves to convince anyone to come to God. Subcultures are irrelevent.

 

Just because a church draws a crowd doesn't make its methods right. It think it would do us all good to not just be 'seeker sensitive.' We need to be more 'Savior Sensitive.' What pleases Christ must come before what pleases the unsaved world. If every element of my service is designed to make unsaved men feel at home, then I have grave problems, and am missing the purpose of the local church.

 

The worship service should not be about subcultures. worship services should be scriptually based without any consideration of subcultures. Please God and not man.

 

I did not use this term.

I did not condemn music. On the contrary, I love music and there are many verses that promote it.

I did not state drama is inherently evil but ya'll are asking me to prove why it's wrong, I'm asking you to prove why it's right? Where is the model and scripture that encourages you to go on stage and pretend to be someone you are not?

I can't do that but I wonder whether or not Jesus needed a Bible and notes when he preached and a place to put them.

See England around 1611, with varied examples prior and after.

You seem to be getting a bit excited, are you gonna be alright?

 

Is that really what the EC, genx, and postmodern ministries are about? Tending to rocky soil? Is everyone who gets involved in in these ministries rocky soil? would that include you? Or are you beyond that type of ministriy because you are much softer soil?

 

I'm not Jesus Christ, Rufus. Where is it said in Scripture that "thou shalt not" use acting or drama?

But if it accomplishes the first two things, why not the other as well?

You're entitled to that opinion, and I haven't tried to squelch it. Merely understand it.

Yes. The message hasn't changed. The differences between the church I grew up in and this one are "methodical" and not "message" differences. The music is maybe a little different. The bulletin and the message format maybe different week to week. The invitation may be given a little differently. The screens with the pastor's notes are definitely different. But these are cosmetic things, and not things that affect the message itself. It is and has been Christ, and Him crucified.

The church has changed, not "me going in search of a modern church." It has nothing to do with what I like or don't like, or what's relelvant to me. It has to do with the people around us that we're reaching out to. Have you ever wondered why Cowboy Churches are springing up everywhere? Because they reach out to an almost untapped people group. If that's what it takes, then set up a mechanical bull in the foyer of my church! (I'm just kidding... you can't see me laughing!)

 

Tending to rocky soil invloves picking out the rocks and pulling a sharp plow through the soil if there is ever any hope of seed being planted. The truth remains that we do not reach sinners by making them feel comfortable, but by exposing their sin to the pure light of the Scriptures.