Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, Jul 27, 2011.
What will be the basis of their condemnation before God?
Romans 3:23? Followed by Romans 5:8?
Jesus said, "I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. "As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day." (Jn 12)
What condemn's mankind on the last day? Is it the imputed sin of Adam? NOPE! What does He say? The "very word which I spoke will condemn him." What is that "word?" The gospel truth!
"For I did not come to judge the world" based upon the "righteousness that comes through the law"....or Adam's imputed sin. But instead there is a "new righteousness being revealed" (Rm 3) which is not from LAW but through faith...this is what Christ has revealed as the "WORD." It is by that "NEW RIGHTEOUSNESS" that "WORD OF CHRIST" by which we are judged. If someone is condemned, he is condemned for his UNBELIEF (Rm 11:23; Heb 3 etc)
19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief!
Great answer! Christ is our substitute on the Cross. Therefore, we must have our own reason to be condemned and that's because of sin. Christ has paid a sufficient payment and if we reject Christ, our own unbelief can also be said as a reason, though primarily it's still our sin.
You fail to see that they are one and the same.
Part of the "gospel" message is that we are dead in our sin and trespasses and need to be re-created by God. Thus, if Christ preaches the gospel and that is the "word that condemns" then we who are dead already merely stand condemned with no change. But, Christ came into the world to save lost sinners, and that is our great hope!
John 3:18 says "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Why do they stand condemned already? Because of what Adam did? NOPE. "because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."
2 Thess 2:10: "and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved."
Why did they perish? Because Adam sinned? NOPE. "because they refused to love the truth and so be saved."
All men in the world are already under condemnation. Persons do not go to hell "for" "rejecting Jesus." They are already on their way there now.
So according to you and your statements in this post.....the heathen who never hear the gospel...so cannot reject the gospel......he does not need to be saved, because he does not even know about Jesus, sin, or the gospel.
when you deny romans 5 truth.....error takes place
You misunderstand John 3:18. They are already condemned. That's the verdict. And they will remain that way, because they don't believe, not "because" they don't believe, do they then "become" condemned. They were condemned already.
The implication is that they had an opportunity to belief but refused.
What about those who never had an opportunity to belief and therefore to refused and be condemned?
EXACTLY what they are implying!
It's as if said are teaching a person is not lost until after they hear. What fallacy! Then, those who never hear really aren't lost yet. Serious error and incomplete thought!
They are already condemned.
To teach as they would be to cast out that the truth the whole world outside of Christ is lost.
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: Ifeel like quantum now , with the thumbsup,lol..does he have a copyright on it:laugh:
Now Iconoclast, how are we able to be enlightened from God on and of such a simple truth, wherein others miss it by a landslide?
Why is that?
How do they miss it, yet we haven't?
well tc.....maybe more posts like this will have you re-considering your recent theological shift:laugh::laugh:
Those who have never heard the gospel are not condemned because they rejected Jesus, of whom they know nothing.
So, if it's not unbelief, what is the basis of their condemnation?
I find the answer in Romans 2, where the heathen (Paul calls them Gentiles) are described as being a law unto themselves. Paul says the law is written on their hearts, that is a moral code, a sense of right and wrong.
So everyone has a moral code, even if they don't know the source of that code. And Paul says that code will be the basis of their condemnation--that can't even abide by their own sense of right and wrong. They can't even do right that they know to do.
Their sinful nature will lead them to sin against their own moral code. So, ee are sinners because of our sinful nature
That will leave them without excuse.
I've heard too many preachers telling people "You're goint to hell for rejecting Christ!" (almost happy about it, sadly)
They are incorrect. They almost come across Pharisaical.
No. They are already on their way there, preacher.
If anyone is keeping count, I've presented numerous verses to say verbatim the reason that men are condemned.
"they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief!"
"because they refused to love the truth and so be saved."
"because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."
"very word which I spoke will condemn him."
Can those who think it is the sin of Adam that will condemn them please (1) explain how these verses are being wrongly interpreted, and (2) supply your own verses which explain your position verbatim?
(Note: if you want to discuss the issue of those who never hear the gospel start a new thread because that is a complex issue that would derail this particular subject)
New International Version (©1984)
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
New Living Translation (©2007)
Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins.
English Standard Version (©2001)
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
International Standard Version (©2008)
You used to be dead because of your offenses and sins,
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
You were once dead because of your failures and sins.
King James Bible
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
American King James Version
And you has he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
American Standard Version
And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins,
Bible in Basic English
And to you did he give life, when you were dead through your wrongdoing and sins,
And you, when you were dead in your offences, and sins,
Darby Bible Translation
and you, being dead in your offences and sins --
English Revised Version
And you did he quicken, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins,