Are People who "used" to be a Christian still saved?

I do understand that truth very well, I am simply more humble in my faith than you seem to be, because I am always on my guard for evil and know extremely well how powerful evil can be and that it could, if you are not careful, spoil your hopes for salvation. You are not dead in the flesh, yet, your body still lives, and therefore you are still a sinner. You are not without sin because the Lord himself said that none of us is or ever will be.

The blood of the cross cleanses you of your sins day after day, but only if you believe. People have had faith and lost it. I am just saying that faith is not in my view a fixed thing, it can evolve, it can grow, but it can also vanish.

Anyway, the identity of those of us who are in the book of life are unknow to us. I will not make the mistake to assume that I am automatically going to be one of these souls who will be saved, it would make me on a par with God if I knew. I will not make the mistake of thinking that I know as much as God. I know nothing. All I can do is believe as much as I can, sin as little as possible, pray, acknowledge Christ's divinity publicly, and obey God's requests. I will only be sure of my salvation when I breathe my last puff of air because I alone with God will know what is effectively in my heart. It is important to die a Christian, more than to live as a Christian and die in arrogance and impiety.

Corinne

 

I did not say I needed to do anything to be saved other than keep believing in Christ day after day. I don't think i made myself understood well here.

What you are saying is (correct me if I am wrong): we are saved from the moment we become believers in Christ and we cannot lose eternal life from that moment on.

What I am saying is: we are in a state of potential salvation from the moment we become believers and we cannot lose that salvation as long as we remain believers in Christ day after day.

The result is exactly the same, but I think the first instance is a comfortable option (as well as a passive one), while the second is less comfortable and forces me to put everything on the table every morning, because it acknowledges the fact that as a Christian but as a sinner, i must consider the possibility that I might fail (I put myself on guard against any evil) and must also decide that the choice I made to be a believer is the right choice. The option I chose is the one which reinforces that choice every day.

I think we make a grave mistake when we underestimate the power of the devil and his demons. It takes great faith to overcome evil at times and I try to be humble (albeit trustful and confident that God is with me) to avoid any arrogance to be my downfall.

God will test us one day. He will ask us to do things that most Christians do not even conceive doing and yet know they will have to do, like leaving behind not only friends but also members of one's family. I am humble enough to hope that if the time comes and I had to choose between following Christ returned and leaving behind my beloved daughter (in the event where she would not be a believer), I would make the right choice, because it surely wouldn't be an easy one, and I am preparing myself for such eventualities. Such times and such choices could lead a lot of Christians to abandon their faith.

It is easy to say that one will leave one's family and belongings and go on the road while being persecuted, and it is quite another to be able to do it. How many of us really think it is going to happen in our lifetime? Are you getting ready, every day, for what might happen, since God warned us that there would be no warning and it could happen at anytime?

Corinne

 

Well, it is simple: if I did die today, I believe I would go to heaven. Had I died yesterday I can also tell you that I am sure I would have gone to heaven. But tomorrow or in a year's time or ten years' time, I cannot tell you for sure.

I live like Jesus himself commanded: I do not worry about tomorrow (Carpe Diem), I put each day in the hands of God and I pray that he is going to help me go to bed at night with my faith not only intact but one day stronger. I trust that I will be saved but it is up to me to make sure that what is in my heart is true belief and not just a one time window dressing.

Corinne

 

Ah, soteriology...let's conjugate the verb: have we been saved, are we saved, are we being saved, will we be saved? Let's look at Paul's soteriology (warning: very long post ahead!)

Paul is frequently at pains to stress the utterly transformed nature of the Christian’s new life in Christ, and the consequences of this. The classic starting point here is 2 Cor 5:17 – the Christian as a new creation, as it were ab initio. This ties in well with the discourse on baptism in Romans 6, particularly v4; the picture is generated of the old having died and been completely replaced so that, the Christian being “in Christ”, there is “now no condemnation” (Rom 8:1) and nothing can separate us from God’s love (Rom 8:31-39), there being complete reconciliation (Col 1:21-23). The consequences of this for us as Christians, particularly vis a vis God, are clearly laid out in such Scriptures as Gal 3:26-47, Eph 1:5-14 and Eph 2:1-10. The general thrust of Paul’s message to many of his churches is that we are made righteous (or justified) as a result of putting our faith in the crucifixion (eg Rom 5:1-2) and thus God regards us as if we were Christ (perfect) with all the attendant rewards; furthermore, this is referred to in the past tense, indicating that it has already been done for us.

Some important provisos:-

• As with any Biblical interpretation, the usual exegesis needs to be carried out – for example, we have to ask ourselves whether Paul wrote what he did because there was a particular issue in the addressee church which required comment. It is important to bear this in mind; for the moment, I would say that the fact that the above soteriological theme was communicated to a number of Pauline churches strengthens the case for it being treated as a principle of general theological application.

• There are also apparently contradictory Pauline passages that cannot be ignored – on suffering, on the lack of completion of God’s work in us, producing a dialectic tension with my comment above

I will look first at the Pauline scriptures that appear to go against the picture of salvation painted above, with a view to explaining these to a degree; this includes examining the meanings of both salvation and sanctification.

It is clear that, despite the verses referred to in the last section, Paul also talks about the concept of ‘unfinished business’ between us and God quite a bit. Important verses here include Rom 6:18-22, 1 Cor 9:24-27, Phil 3:12-16 and, perhaps most perplexing of all, Phil 2:12. The Romans passage is of particular interest since it contains the ideas of both salvation (Rom 6:18) and sanctification (Rom 6:19-22). Both these terms need looking at.

The distinction between salvation and sanctification has been the subject of a great deal of writing and preaching, especially by evangelicals, and I don’t really want to add a great deal to what has already been said here. Broadly speaking, most evangelicals would draw a clear-cut line between salvation, which they would see as being a once-and-for-all event occurring when an individual repents and gives his/her life to Christ, and sanctification, which is an ongoing work of the Holy Spirit within that individual beginning at the point of salvation and working out the consequences of salvation within this/her life. Putting it simply, whilst salvation is a crisis, sanctification is a process.

I think it is fair to say that, in contrast, the interpretation of the more traditional churches, such as the Catholic and Orthodox churches, appealing more perhaps to Phil 2:12, is to blur the difference between the two terms, and also to down-play to a degree the role of the individual in both whilst emphasising the agency of the Church (the Holy Spirit is seen more as acting in the Church collectively, through for example the hierarchy of the Church). Salvation and sanctification are more interwoven, and sanctification is seen more as a means of effecting salvation rather than as a consequence of it (see for example the notion of purgatory and, perhaps also, suffering as an agency of sanctification).

To a degree, I find both approaches to salvation and sanctification inadequate. Whilst agreeing with the general principle that salvation is a once-and-for-all occurrence (and thus disagreeing with the Catholic view), I take issue with it necessarily being a crisis event; I know many people for whom conversion was far more of a process, and perhaps evangelical soteriology needs to recognise this and be couched more in terms of individuals making a series of steps towards Christ rather than just one great leap. As an example, I understand that apparently Billy Graham can put his finger on the exact moment when he came to faith (crisis) but his wife cannot and her experience is better described as a journey to faith (process). Phil 2:12 is however a verse that cannot simply be ignored. It could be, adopting an exegetical approach, that Paul is admonishing the Philippians for taking their salvation lightly. It can also be interpreted as the results of salvation working themselves out through sanctification, but this does not explain the use of the words “fear and trembling”. Personally, I do not believe that Paul is here warning the church against forfeiting their salvation; he is perhaps reminding them just what they have been saved from and also heightening their awareness of the sheer wrongfulness of sin, something that maybe we Western Christians need to remember as well.

Sanctification also is a term that can cover a multitude of sins (if you’ll pardon the double entendre). The very word itself has connotations of holiness, which is one of God’s defining attributes, so one way of looking at it is to regard sanctification as being the process by which we are made more like God (cp Rom 12:1-2). Clearly, therefore, on one level this is a life-long process; as obvious evidence of this I know of no Christian who does not sin (even those who have been baptised into Jesus’ death and resurrection) and who is therefore already perfect ‘on the ground’, as it were, and accordingly we all have some ongoing business with God that we need to attend to in this area (some, like me, more than others!). On the other hand, Paul also talks in terms of sanctification having already occurred in 1 Cor 1:2. Applying exegetical principles to this passage, we need to ask ourselves whether Paul was correcting an imbalance within the Corinthian church here, as he sometimes did with his churches elsewhere. For example, he is keen to stress grace to the Colossians and Galatians, who were still bound up by the Law to a large extent, but is by contrast harsh with the Corinthians’ licentiousness. It seems unlikely, given the Corinthians’ general arrogance in their spiritual gifts etc, that Paul is trying to reassure them that all is well between them and God; in fact, if there is any corrective soteriological concept which is addressed to this church’s over-confidence it is the idea of beholding God “as through a glass darkly” (1 Cor 13:12 and 2 Cor 3:15-18). I think therefore we need to take what Paul is saying here at face value; that there is a level on which sanctification is already accomplished – having been declared righteous, God regards us as being holy already and treats us accordingly. (Elsewhere, Paul does seek to correct the possible attitudinal problems arising from this way of thinking (Rom 6:1-2)).

I would prefer accordingly to see a fine tuning of the definitions of the terms salvation and sanctification. I see salvation (and sanctification too, in the way set out in the above paragraph) as being accomplished by a combination of grace and faith, grace being a past act (the crucifixion and resultant forgiveness) with continuing consequences, and faith being a response-decision to that (whether taken instantly or over a number a graduated steps). The life-long ongoing process resulting from that I see more in terms of developing and deepening our relationship with God which flows from our salvation and in that way, God being Love, we are fitted for heaven; we try not to sin, not so much because it is wrong, but because it wounds God – love, not Law, should be the motivating factor.


It seems from the above that there is a contradiction inherent in being made perfect in God’s eyes by Christ whilst at the same time suffering the consequences of imperfection – suffering and death – and perhaps also not receiving all the apparent rewards of righteousness. I believe that a big clue in solving this riddle lies in the use by Paul (and indeed other New Testament writers) of the concept of teleios.

Teleios, (together with its associated similar words, teleioo, teleiotes, and teleiosis) is used frequently by Paul. You will have noticed by now that I have failed to give translations of these Greek words yet, and therein lies part of the problem: teleios and co have multiple meanings. Just as a Greek would have trouble translating our word ‘love’ (is it agape, eros, storge or phile?), so too do we have difficulties with teleios. Basically, it can be translated, inter alia, in all or some of the following ways: complete, finished, perfect, having-achieved-the-end-result, accomplished, fulfilled, full-grown, fully-developed, adult and mature. It derives from the Greek noun telos, meaning end/ goal, and, as a further aid to our understanding of the word, the teleological school of philosophical thought essentially asserts that ‘the end justifies the means’ (e.g.: that the bombing of Hiroshima was morally right because it saved lives in the long-run). To a degree, the meaning can vary according to the context but I would suggest that, by and large, teleios (and the associated words above) encompasses all of these meanings and that Paul’s use of it in his soteriology demonstrates conceptually the same kind of dialectic tension as between now and not yet which we have with the Kingdom of God being at hand. Judge for yourselves by these examples of the use of teleios-rooted words, both in Pauline texts and other New Testament writings: 1 Cor 14:20; 2 Cor 12:9; Eph 4:13; Phil 1:6; 3:12-16; Matt 5:48: Heb 2:10; 10:1; 12:23; James 1:4; and 1 Jn 2:5.

To further illustrate this tension between “now” and “not yet”, we have Paul’s own example: his use of the word rhabdon. The rhabdon was used in the Hellenistic world as a deposit, a pledge or down-payment, on the striking of an agreement, to guarantee performance of the contract and to provide compensation in the event of default. In this way, it is remarkably similar to the deposit paid by buyer to seller on exchange of contracts when buying a house. In English and Welsh law, it is the point of exchange of contracts at which legal rights and obligations arise; from exchange, the buyer has the right to own and live in the house and has the obligation to pay over the balance of the purchase monies on the completion date, minus the deposit which s/he pays to the seller at the point of exchange. However, it is only at completion, which typically takes place a week or two after exchange (so that mortgage finance can be called upon and the parties make removal arrangements), that these rights are realised: the keys are delivered, the balance of the price paid, the title deeds handed over, the seller vacates and the buyer moves into occupation. Paul, in Eph 1:13-14 says that the Holy Spirit is our rhabdon (usually translated ‘deposit’). His use of the word is very significant: there is a contrast between the rhabdon (exchange), which is where we are at now, and the telios (completion) which is where we will be after the eschaton; only at completion do we enter into the fullness of that which is promised at exchange, yet we can act with faith that completion will occur, just as the buyer who has exchanged contracts can book a removal firm and order furniture for the new home with confidence. So, then, exchange constitutes the ‘now’ and completion the ‘not yet’.

Therefore:-

• The same kind of dynamic tension exists within Pauline soteriology as with Jesus’ preaching on the Kingdom of God. (As further evidence of this I would refer you to Paul’s discourse on the resurrection in 1 Cor 15 )

• Our salvation and sanctification are already complete, yet the outworking of both continues until our death (not beyond as per the doctrine of purgatory) or the eschaton, whichever is the sooner; whilst this process is being fulfilled we experience the fruits of our salvation/sanctification, but not completely, both with regard to relationship with God and the ‘blessings of righteousness’, thus death and suffering, whilst restrained to a degree, are still at work in our (mortal) bodies

Hope that helps!

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

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I will only be sure of my salvation when I breathe my last puff of air because I alone with God will know what is effectively in my heart. It is important to die a Christian, more than to live as a Christian and die in arrogance and impiety.
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This is NOT what the scriptures say. The scriptures say the OPPOSITE of this. I believe the scriptures, and what God has said concerning it. Not my own opinion of it or your opinion of it. Therefore my view is not based on a high opinion of myself or my own piety, but based soley upon FAITH in Jesus Christ my saviour and what He has said, did, does, and will do.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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It is easy to say that one will leave one's family and belongings and go on the road while being persecuted, and it is quite another to be able to do it. How many of us really think it is going to happen in our lifetime? Are you getting ready, every day, for what might happen, since God warned us that there would be no warning and it could happen at anytime?
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No one would be able to do this of their own choice, or on their own. One must be saved and indwelt by the Holy Spirit of God by faith in order to endure this. It is God who is our strength, confidence and boldness. If we start relying upon our own selves, or choices, we will fail EACH AND EVERY TIME. One must have faith in Christ, and those who are saved do. WE most assuredly fail, and sin, but God is stronger. As the scriptures say, He who is in you, is stronger than he who is in the world. Do not make God powerless in your salvation. This would be boasting in your salvation, whether it be to give yourself the power because of your choices, or the devil and his angels. Once one is saved, it is impossible for them to lose it. God is more powerful, and also very able, and I put my whole trust and reliance upon Him, NOT IN MYSELF AND MY CHOICES. You might be in for a rude awakening someday if you believe it is your choice after being saved. One is either saved or they are not. There is no in between.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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Well, it is simple: if I did die today, I believe I would go to heaven. Had I died yesterday I can also tell you that I am sure I would have gone to heaven. But tomorrow or in a year's time or ten years' time, I cannot tell you for sure
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It would do you well, to put ALL OF YOUR FAITH AND TRUST IN CHRIST, and not in YOURSELF. How is it you know the peace that surpasseth all understanding? Do you understand this and have and do you experience this truth?


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Cindig,

Ever heard of doubts? OK you want Bible quotes, here they come:

Consider Matthew 24:10 when Jesus says: "and many WILL TURN AWAY FROM ME and betray and hate each other."

Many Christians will turn away from Christ during the end times. What will happen to them? If they are in the Book of Life, their faith will save them, but nobody but God has any knowledge of their identities, so who turns away from God at that time he describes could be you, could be me.

Remember this is, in the Bible, not just a simple verse, it is what Jesus HIMSELF said to the apostles. It is a warning to us.

Jesus also says a couple of lines later, in Matthew 24:13 "THOSE WHO ENDURE TO THE END WILL BE SAVED". This obviously indicates - to me anyway - that those who do not endure to the end will not be saved. And he seems to think that some people will endure and not others. Wonder who that could be? Could be me, could be you? I surely hope it won't be either of us, but hey, just to make sure, I will continue to renew my pledge to Christ every morning, and hope that he reads my heart the way I do.

Matthew 26:41 - Keep alert and pray. Otherwise temptation will overpower you. For though the spirit is willing enough, the body is weak".

Jesus leaves open the possibility that even believers could be overwhelmed by temptation (and therefore evil) if they are not careful. The possibility is there! Or why would he warn us that we must keep awake at all times and keep praying.

LUKE 8:13, about the rocky soil with roots that do not go deep - ".....They believe for a while..." - WHAT? Is it possible to believe for a while, and then not, then? According to Jesus, it is. I fear for all those who think their roots are deep, even though in reality they might not be.....

LUKE 13:24 - "The door to heaven is narrow. WORK HARD TO GET IN, BECAUSE MANY WILL TRY TO ENTER...." Why work so hard then, if you think you are already saved and that all you have to do is present yourself at the door.

Of course there is the story of the Lost Sheep, which Jesus relates: LUKE 15:7 "Heaven will be happier over one lost sinner who returns to God than over 99 others who are righteous and have not strayed away." Jesus clearly says that it is possible for a believer to stray away and then return to God. This is perhaps the best example to show you that it is possible for a believer to lose faith, stray away and then return to the faith and to Christ.

Let us make sure, day after day, that our faith in him is strong enough. It is like a marathon, you don't run a marathon like you run a 100 meters. You train hard, every day, and you suffer in the process, you test your endurance.

Same with your faith.

Corinne
http://www.christianresistance.com

 

OK Michelle, let us see how much you believe what Jesus himself said in the Bible. I have just given you in my previous post some direct Jesus quotes which will hopefully help you to understand what I have been saying.

When I say "die as a Christian" I only mean that to live as a Christian is fine, but the whole point, as Jesus puts it, is to "endure to the end" and be a believer when you die.

You take what you want from the Bible, at the end of the day, it does not make you a better Christian, only a more confident one.

Corinne

 

Michelle, dear,

Believing in Jesus Christ IS a choice. It is not Christ's own choice, or your neighbour's, it is your personal choice. That you put your life into the hands of God from that moment on, fine, but before you do that, you exercise your own choice: to believe or not.

You are not saved yet, in my opinion (read my penultimate post) you still have a lot of work to do and you can still lose your faith, like the lost sheep of the Bible (good thing is that it returns to God after straying away).

You talk about your place in heaven as if your belief in Christ had bought you an automatic one-way ticket there. I find this extremely arrogant and I prefer to be humble and acknowledge that I might become one day a lost sheep too if I am not careful and if I do not work hard enough at being a good Christian who loves Christ above all.

Beware of temptation.

Corinne

 

Where have I said I put any trust or faith in myself? Unless you give me proof of the contrary, when you commit a sin, Michelle, is it you committing that sin or is it Christ? Please it is about time you come to grips with the fact that you are not so perfect as a Christian, and that your place in paradise is not guaranteed. I can pull out of the Scriptures - which you say you go by - as many direct quotes from Jesus himself on the subject, and you do not even appear to have read them.

You want to consider yourself saved, fine with me. It is your soul, not mine, after all, and whether you are or not is between you and God, just like my salvation is between me and Him. Everything we can say does not matter that much if the result is that we both go to heaven. Whether you understand me or not does not matter. You are not the one I need to convince that my heart is as pure as I can make it (And believe me, from day to day, the purity of my heart does change so that is why I believe I need to work hard at sinning less and praying more).

Corinne

 

Actually, we can know for sure that we have eternal life. Look at 1 John 5:

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Note, that the apostle John (who spent much time with Jesus) says that those who believe have - not might, maybe, possibly, could, ... have. And it is not based on our works. We could never earn it, but Jesus paid our debt in full.

 

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LUKE 8:13, about the rocky soil with roots that do not go deep - ".....They believe for a while..." - WHAT? Is it possible to believe for a while, and then not, then? According to Jesus, it is. I fear for all those who think their roots are deep, even though in reality they might not be.....
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The difference is, that they only believe in their minds, and not their hearts. These do not have faith. They only have head knowledge, but think that they have faith, at least temporary. The warnings are to those that are not yet saved, but think they are. Those who are saved KNOW. God's word is sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the asunder of the soul. These warning are placed there for the benefit of the reader/hearer, the unregenerate who THINKS only that they are saved, but are NOT YET SAVED, in order to convict them to salvation and resulting in KNOWING FOR SURE. I know for sure I am saved, as the Holy Spirit has testified with my spirit that I am a child of God. It is very sad you do not know, nor can you even possibly have any peace in your walk because of your belief. One better be sure they are saved. One will know for sure if indeed they are. If they are unsure, then they are probably not yet saved, as the Holy Spirit of God is the comforter, who is the one to give us the assurance and there is NO DOUBT.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

I never said that believers did not have eternal life guaranteed, I merely said that you had to make sure that once a believer, you did not stray like the lost sheep did (he had to return to God, remember? he succeeded but some of us may not succeed) and renewed your pledge to Christ every single day.

All believers will have eternal life, that is the promess. The point I was making is that you need to be sure you remain a believer until the end. It may seem obvious to most of you, but to some, it is not as simple.

Corinne

 

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LUKE 13:24 - "The door to heaven is narrow. WORK HARD TO GET IN, BECAUSE MANY WILL TRY TO ENTER...." Why work so hard then, if you think you are already saved and that all you have to do is present yourself at the door.

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The scriptures actually say this:


22. And he went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem.
23. Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
24. Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25. When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
26. Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27. But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.


The scriptures say strive, not work. What does a christian, who is saved strive for? We strive to please the Lord and do HIS will. This is what we always strive to do, not because we feel we have to (that would be the works of the law), but because we desire or want to (from the heart and living in the Spirit). This is given to us by God Almighty himself, not of our own. God puts it in us to strive to please him and it is through our faith that this is done. We on our own, do not have this ability, nor this desire. WE love God, because God first loved us. God has done this, and does this through our faith and in our hearts/spirit, not us and our own minds.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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When I say "die as a Christian" I only mean that to live as a Christian is fine, but the whole point, as Jesus puts it, is to "endure to the end" and be a believer when you die.
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Actually, if you read that verse in it's context, it is specifically speaking of the tribulation period and speaking specifically to and of the Jews. Please read it in context. Of course it can have applications to the church, however it is specifically speaking to a specific people at a specific time.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Michelle,

You keep rehashing the same stuff over and over again, it is as if you did not read anything I wrote since yesterday to you. Frankly if you cannot be bothered to discuss rather than repeating the same thing, and since there is no evolution whatsoever in the discussion, I can't see the point of continuing. I am not here to be in an open conflict with you over this, and I am not here to convert you to my belief within my belief that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who was, is and will be. I will be saved, I am just not effectively saved right now, today, only potentially saved. You don't want to discuss about the difference between effective and potential, relative and absolute, fine, let's call it a day. Go on thinking you are safe from evil, and 100% safe and going to heaven, I have nothing against it, sister.

Blessings in Christ
Corinne

 

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Believing in Jesus Christ IS a choice. It is not Christ's own choice, or your neighbour's, it is your personal choice. That you put your life into the hands of God from that moment on, fine, but before you do that, you exercise your own choice: to believe or not.
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Believing in Christ has nothing to do with choice. It has EVERYTHING to do with FAITH. The scriptures say nothing about choice. The is a lie from the devil himself. This is how Satan managed to decieve Eve in the garden. He made her think she had a choice. It has everything to do with faith, and the obediance that comes with faith. Faith is not a choice. It is something one has, but not something someone chooses. Just like love. One does not choose to love another. This is something known and felt when it is there, but not at all a chosen emotion. Love is not a choice. Neither is faith.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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Where have I said I put any trust or faith in myself? Unless you give me proof of the contrary, when you commit a sin, Michelle, is it you committing that sin or is it Christ? Please it is about time you come to grips with the fact that you are not so perfect as a Christian, and that your place in paradise is not guaranteed. I can pull out of the Scriptures - which you say you go by - as many direct quotes from Jesus himself on the subject, and you do not even appear to have read them.

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My faith in Christ is the faith and trust that He payed the FULL PENALTY FOR MY SINS. There is nothing that I can do, for HE DID IT ALL, and he said it was finished, once and for all. He paid the full penalty for ALL OF MY SINS, past, present and future, and because I have faith that HE HAS DONE THIS, and has covered my sins with his shed blood, and rose on the third day, that because I am with and in him, he will also raise up my dead body on that day because of what HE HAS DONE. This is where my faith and trust and hope is, and to whereby I do and can have peace. I do not live my life living after the flesh, but after the spirit and in faith and hope. Striving always to please my Lord, and do HIS WILL, also knowing and trusting that he will never leave me nor forsake me, and that if I fall, He is able to bring me back to repentance. My faith and trust is in HIM and ONLY HIM, not myself, nor my fear, but TRUST and HOPE and ASSURANCE in God my Saviour, and HIS GRACE, and POWER and LOVE of the cross. It is a shame, that you live in continual fear of losing your salvation, rather than trusting completely what Jesus Christ has done, is doing, and will do for you. This is very sad indeed.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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You are not the one I need to convince that my heart is as pure as I can make it (And believe me, from day to day, the purity of my heart does change so that is why I believe I need to work hard at sinning less and praying more).
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This seems to be where your problem is. You cannot make your own heart pure. This is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to do on their own. It is ONLY GOD ALMIGHTY through his grace by faith that makes your heart pure, even as HE is pure. We DO NOT HAVE THIS ABILITY. Only the Lord our God through the shed blood of Jesus Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God, can and does do this. You are sadly, attributing the work of the Holy Spirit of God to YOURSELF. This is what is called "boasting". You are making yourself your own saviour, rather than the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Only Saviour, AND only person capable of being pure and purifying others.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle