Are terrorists more evil than Jewish rabbis?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Daniel David, Jun 9, 2003.

  1. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    I would like to throw this out to talk about. I believe the N.T. is crystal clear that false teachers will be judged very severely. In 1 John, we are told that those who deny that God came in the flesh are of the same spirit as the antichrist.

    So, again, which is worse?

    Is it evil that a person blows themself up and takes the lives of others? Yes.

    Is it worse that some "peaceful" rabbi is teaching works salvation and denying Christ to others? Yes.

    A similar topic that should probably be in another forum is whether or not it is the churches job to protect and play political games to watch over Israel? Btw, the answer is no.
     
  2. Artimaeus

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    Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

    If a Jew is wrong I will say so but lumping them in with Muslim terrorists is not something I am prepared to do.
     
  3. Dr. Bob

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    Good try at stirring up strife, but apples and oranges here, brother.

    "More Evil" in a spiritual realm? All false religion is intrinsically evil from God's perspective.

    "Evil" from a human perspective? Nonsense. We categorize evil from a "Hitler" on one end to a "Bob" on the other. Totally sinful and condemned? Yep. But equally culpable before society? Nada.
     
  4. Daniel David

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    Surely before man and living in a society, a terrorist is worse. They seek to ruin the lives of people here.

    However, Christ condemned false teachers over and over again for not recognizing him and for turning others into twice the children of hell. He didn't spend his time condemning the terrorist known as Pilate.

    Gen. 12:3 is the perfect verse here also. As Paul argues, Christ is THE son of Abraham, to reject Christ is to curse Abraham. That verse is not a unilateral promise to Jews anyways. Jews are the direct offspring of Jacob. Abraham had many other sons. Their sons had sons.

    From the mouth of a dispensationalists who sees Israel as a nation with future blessing.
     
  5. Pastor Larry

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    While the title does seem provocative and perhaps unnecessarily so, let us not be too quick to write this off to trouble stirring. Remember that Christ warned the Pharisees of being blind leaders of the blind and condemnign the little ones by misleading them. A terrorist can only affect the physical life; a false teacher can affect the eternal life. Which is worse and why?

    I don't think DD means to equate them in terms of the situation in the world today. But when you look at this from a theological standpoint, is he that far off base??
     
  6. Abiyah

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    Perhaps it is a surprise to you, as it was to me,
    that there are many rabbis right now who have
    categorically stated that they believe Y'shua to
    be the Messiah Right Now, but they have
    decided that they cannot speak this outright until
    the time is ripe. These rabbis are from many
    countries, including Israel and the U.S.

    This comes from a teacher who up to now has
    been a moderately-popular "Christian" teacher
    with quite a following but who, in just a few
    months, is going to put out a book denouncing
    Him as the Messiah! This teacher has already
    warned the staff to start looking for other work,
    because financial support will cease with the
    publishing of this book.

    No, I am not wiling to tell this person's name.
    Instead, we are praying for a change of heart
    and repentance.
     
  7. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    I think Larry understood my point. From a theological standpoint, there is no comparison.
     
  8. Abiyah

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    David --

    Being a member of a Baptist-based Torah-
    observant Synagogue, I just ask you not to be
    quite so adament in your assessment of rabbis.
    Such all-encompassing assumptions and
    statements may truly hurt the cause of the
    Messiah.

    Imagine you were reared in a society in which
    His name was slandered, but you, through
    personal study, are starting to see that this Man
    is the Messiah. If you admit it publicly, you lose
    your family. You lose your friends. You lose
    your colleagues. All your life -- from childhood!
    -- you have studied to be a rabbi, seeing it as a
    good, godly, upright position, but you will, by
    your admission, lose 98% of your congregation
    and your livlihood. While you live, they will have
    your funeral and your name will forever be
    erased from their lips.

    The church will not accept you. You are, after all,
    a Jew and do not go to church on Sunday
    because Sabbath is your day of rest, you will
    not do Christmas, you do holy days Christians
    don't understand and do not try, and they do not
    understand your funny clothes and hair style.
    To them, you are an interesting anomaly, an
    oddity, but they have no place for you. To be
    one of them, you must comply with their social
    rules, but you cannot. So you watch and wait.

    Meanwhile, you note that Christians, while
    rejecting Jews with inaccurate accusations,
    are not a very friendly bunch. Then you realize
    that Jews are the most neglected in all Christian
    outreaches in all of time. You recall the political
    and social sanctions, done in the name of
    Christianity. And when they do try to convert you,
    the first thing they tell you is to stop doing
    Passover and start doing Easter, or you're
    pagan; stop doing Sabbath and do Sunday
    because Sunday is traditional.

    All this makes the conversion of those most
    knowledgeable, those most likely to be
    productive for the cause of Messiah very, very
    difficult.

    Let's not go there.
     
  9. Pete Richert

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    I believe Daniel David was speaking about non-believing Jews and not to the plight of those who believe. I submit it is difficult to convert to trusting in Jesus by Jewish people, as it is in China and the Sudan. For those, you will not just lose your family, but will probably be put in prison (China) or put to death! (Sudan).

    As for the Christian community not accepting Jewish believers, this is just foolishness. There is nothing in the NT that commands observance of Christmas, Easter, or even Sunday. You can just as much wear funny clothes and funny hats as men in Thailand can continue to wear things that look an aweful lot like dresses to our western eyes as well as facial makeup. Cultural dress has nothing to do with circumsicion of the heart. If this is truly the case in our western churches (that we don't accept Jews on this basis) then it is to our shame and demonstrates our inability to understand the gospel.
     
  10. Abiyah

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    Well, thank you, Pete. We need more in the
    churches with your attitude, and I appreciate it.

    The problem I am trying to address, and now I
    see I did not do it well, is those rabbis who are in
    a process -- those who have not completely
    changed their minds but are in varying stages of
    thought toward Messiah. We do not know who
    they are, because they have not yet reached that
    point of complete conversion. Unlike one of the
    pastors at my synagogue, he cannot yet look
    another in the eye and say, "I may look like just
    another rabbi to you, but I am a believer like you."

    I just request that we not make the road so rough
    for them here in the States, where we still have
    freedom of religion. Let's not criticize them
    categorically, especially by comparing them to
    terrorists!

    You may see one of my pastors walking down
    your street and make a very heinous assumption!
     
  11. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    Abiyah, this is part of the problem, if a rabbi does not confess Christ and does not embrace justification by faith alone (like Abraham did), they are a false teacher and leading others down the road making them twice the children of hell.

    Don't forget that the early church was heavily Jewish and Paul was explicit in his condemnation for the Judaizers.

    Consider Matthew 10. Do not fear those who can destroy the body, but fear him who can destroy both body and soul in hell.

    The whole Messianic thing is another issue altogether.
     
  12. Grasshopper

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    I would much rather live next to a Jewish Rabbi than a terrorist. They both teach heresy, but only one will try to kill you.
     
  13. Tim

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    I always try to keep the message in one category and the messenger in another. Of course many believe false doctrine, and many teach it--but personally, I will still consider them lost souls which Jesus can save. When the message is heretical we cannot support it, but the Lord is still in the business of saving heretics.

    Application: Judaism is an anti-Christian religion, but Jews (and even rabbis) need Christ.
    Islam, ditto. But I do think praying for a Mulim's salvation may involve a little more self-interest (he may want to kill me).

    Tim
     
  14. Abiyah

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    Am I not writing clearly? I am advising that when
    you categorically link all rabbis with terrorists,
    you are denouncing some who are children of
    Messiah and some who are future children of
    Messiah. Does this not matter to you, or am I
    not making sense? Do you not even care that
    you, by your attitue, are making it difficult for
    a whole race of people to find our Lord?
     
  15. Daniel David

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    Abiyah, I have said nothing that Christ and Paul have not already said.

    Btw, if a person is ashamed to confess Christ before men, he is lost. End of story. That is EXPLICITLY what Christ said in Matthew 10.
     
  16. Abiyah

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  17. Word Traveler

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    Hi guys, "More evil?" Evil is evil. Sin is sin. Both murderer and false teacher will be judged unless he repents and accepts Jesus Christ as Lord & Savior! Consider: "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." 2 Cor. 5:17 Mankind puts degrees on sin. It all stinks in God's nostrils! Let's by no means uphold 'em, let's by all means pray for 'em! Just a thought. In Christ, WT
     
  18. PJ

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    [​IMG]
    PJ
     
  19. Tim

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    When denouncing sin and erroneous teaching, one should not play favorites. But our spirit should demonstrate a desire for the redemption of those caught up in error.

    This applies equally to Jews, Muslims, and even WASPS. (So, to those to whom this applies, it wouldn't be helpful to call me Hitleresque, because I'm not dispensational).

    Anyway, Abiyah, Perhaps I misunderstand you, but it seems like you're exempting rabbis from a proper denunciation of their heresy regarding Christ. Any such exemption will certainly not lead to their repentance.

    In Christ,

    Tim
     
  20. Abiyah

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    No, Tim, I am not. And thank you for your gentler
    attitude here.

    What I am trying to say is that the Lord is working
    with His people, the Jews. Many are presently
    coming to Him, recognizing Him as the Messiah,
    but too many in the church are too busy labeling,
    too busy bashing, too busy condemning. When
    people are so intent on this, they are not praying.

    We Must Quit Criticizing, Quit Labeling, and Quit
    Advertizing Our Ignorance Toward Groups and
    start doing the Great Commission as our Lord
    said.

    I always liked Preach. This is all difficult for me to
    accept.
     

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