Are the Accepted Paradigms for Soul and Spirit Hindering our Understanding?

Maybe to assist:

Define very briefly man's soul:
Define very brefly man's spirit:

Establish Biblically that God and Spirit must/does relate to man's soul and spirit.

 

I'm back, and can post some today. :wavey:

I have to stop you right here before we go any further and object in two ways:

(1) I find no place in Scripture to equate the trinity with trichotomy. So please tell me Scripturally where you get this.

(2) Even if you can establish that the trinity represents trichotomy, it is a mistake to equate the Father with conscience. Our conscience tells us what we've done wrong, and the Father is of course perfectly sinless.

Back to you.

 

Interestingly enough, I just preached about "the image of God" at youth camp, of which the theme was, "You are special."

My message was based first of all on the fact that the phrase in Gen. 1 contrasts God's human creation with the rest of creation, over which humankind is set to rule. In particular, the contrast is set between men and animals. (Exegete vv. 24-27 for this.) So the conclusion must be made theologically that we are made in the image of God to the extent that we is a superior creation to the animals: we can reason, create (art and music), communicate, etc.

Other than Genesis 1, I only find three places in the whole Bible where the phrase "image of God" occurs. I based the three points of my message on those three instances: Gen. 9:6 (life is precious), 1 Cor. 11:7 (we must take responsibility) and Col. 1:15 (Christ is the ultimately perfect image of God, and we are to pattern our lives after Him).

I see no Biblical reason, no possible exegesis that can take us beyond these facts. To equate the "image of God" in the Bible with trichotomy and the trinity just has no basis in the Bible, and thus no basis in theology. I have to admit that your theory is attractive, and I've played around with it in my mind more than once, but it just is not good theology.

I'm sorry, this still does not take me to equate God the Father to the human conscience. Such an interpretation is just not there in the Biblical data.

Note that "conscience" occurs 30 times in the KJV, all in the NT, the Greek word invariably being suneidesis. The Analytical Lexicon says about this word: συνείδησις , εως , ἡ (1) as a perceptive awareness within oneself, consciousness (HE 10.2; 1P 2.19); (2) as the faculty of moral consciousness or awareness by which moral judgments relating to right and wrong are made conscience (AC 23.1).

The conscience can be pure, good, seared, defiled, etc. Never once, though, is it used to refer to God, always to us. Therefore any teaching or theology that God has or is equivalent to conscience is pure speculation.

I'm afraid I'm a literalist here. I believe that there are actual books in Heaven, and I see no Scriptural connection with soul or spirit in the Scripture passages mentioning the book of life (8 verses with "book of life"), and I find no "book of works" in Matt. 25 or Dan. 12:2.

 

I'm sure exscentric will hold his own answering the rest of this post, but I just want to point out that at the time of creation Jesus had not yet taken on a physical body. Thus it is impossible to equate the human body of Christ with man's body in the image of God concept.

 

I don't know that I want in on the discussion, just thought I'd see if we could get some common ground or uncommon as the case may be by

Define BIBLICALLY very briefly man's soul:
Define BIBLICALLY very brefly man's spirit:

Establish Biblically that God and Spirit must/does relate to man's soul and spirit.

I was remiss on the first two requests the first time and await the third :smilewinkgrin:

I think this is an area that many have never touched and am interested in the results of you two's discussion!

In general terms I've always been taught that

Body is world consciousness
Soul is self consciousness
Spirit is God consciousness

Realizing the soul and spirit are so closely related that many feel they are one.

 

The bill is in the mail. :smilewinkgrin:

 

Being a linguist (practical, not scholarly), I usually go by lexical definitions. However, in this case, the words for soul and spirit both have a wide range of meanings, and on occasion these two words are even synonyms. It's not easy to pin down a single biblical definition, but based on much study on this issue and on the Biblical usage of these words, I define them thusly (hopefully I can give Scripture enough to satisfy as the thread continues):

Spirit: that part of the human creation which communicates with God in prayer, and through which God communicates with us through the Bible and the leading of the Holy Spirit.

Soul: that part of the human creation which consists of the very essense of the person, meaning his personality and all of his capabilities as a special human creation of God.

skypair's task.

This is Watchman Nee's view in his big book on trichotomy (The Spiritual Man, p. 26). It is also taught by Charles Solomon in his Christian counseling method which depends on trichotomy (I have it in his book, Handbook to Happiness). I can't find exactly this explanation in my systematic theologies, but there are similar ones.

Here is Strong's explanation: "The pneuma (Gr. for sprit--JOJ), then, is man's nature looking Godward, and capable of receiving and manifesting the Pneuma agion (Holy Spirit--JOJ); the psuxe (soul--JOJ) is man's nature looking earthward, and touching the world of sense" (Strong, Systematic Theology, p. 486).

This view is called dichotomy. :type:

 

Here are Scriptures that prove that the human spirit is the conduit of communication between God and man.

According to 1 Cor. 14:14-15 we pray with the spirit.

In Rom. 8:26, it is the Holy Spirit who makes groanings for us which cannot be uttered when we don't know how to pray. This to me says that the exercise of prayer in man's spirit is accomplished with the aid of the Holy Spirit in the trinity.

According to 1 Cor. 2:14-16, we discern the things of the Spirit "spiritually"--that is, with our spirit.

In the OT we have Prov. 20:27--"The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly." So again, God reaches us through our spirit. :type:

 

Well done John, not that you need my approval :smilewinkgrin:

 

Brother John,

I have been working on some things that maybe you can help me with.
You gave brief descriptions on the soul and spirit, maybe you can give me your thoughts on this also.

Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength:

Without going too deep with my thoughts, I believe each of these to be different parts with different functions. We must also consider our spirit and conscience, but with respect to this verse, what is your thoughts on the "heart, soul, mind and strength"?

 

Hi, Outsider.

This is a difficult passage, but my thoughts are close to yours. However, I would put the emphasis on the function rather than the part.

"Heart" in this usage is generally agreed to be the seat of the emotions, and I put that in the soul. "Soul" here I would prefer to translate in this passage as "life" (another meaning of the Greek word), meaning the total of who you are (activities, assets, talents, etc.). See Matt. 6:25 for a similar meaning for this Greek word. "Mind" is of course the seat of reason, your thinking. Strength can mean any strength you have, mental or physical, and thus would not be a part so much as a function.

I hope this helps.

 

Thank you kindly! :wavey:

 

In my model, when I teach counseling in our Bible institute, I have a pie chart with spirit, soul and body sections, and the will in the center in a little circle of its own. The reason for that is because we can decide to walk in the flesh or the spirit. As for the conscience, I put it as part of the spirit.

I'm getting to be an "old dog." :laugh:

No, actually I'm a trichotomist. As for the comparison with the trinity, it is a very attractive explanation to me, and as I said I've considered it several times but just can't find a Biblical basis for it. It may possibly be true, but it remains speculation.

 

I consider the heart (seat of the emotions in the Bible) and mind to be part of the soul. I consider the term flesh (in the sense of the old sinful nature) to be a part of the soul which will be excised when we reach Heaven. In the meantime, we are to walk in the spirit, meaning to me that we are to let spiritual things rule in our lives and not fleshly things.

Sorry, I don't find the soul or spirit described in layers in the Bible.

I keep trying! raying:

Years ago in Yokohama I had a schizophrenic, drug addict, depressed man and other problem people in our church. In order to be able to help them, at that time I investigated all of this thoroughly, both in the Word of God and through many good books, and came to the position I now hold.

As for the trinity and trichotomy, I'm perfectly willing to change, but you have to show me from the Bible, not simply as an exercise in logic. So, I'm waiting for you on that!

Well, nothing is wrong with man in the image of God. I've already said what I believe about that. So please interact with what I've said. And if there is more to the image of God than I've said, please show it to me in the Word of God.