Are the Church and the Kingdom the Same?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Tom Butler, Apr 13, 2006.

  1. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    In my own mind, I have always made a distinction between the church and the kingdom. One reason is that I hold that salvation provides entry to the Kingdom, while the door to the church is water baptism.

    I have also read things which refer to the church when I think the writer really means the kingdom. I read another writer who thinks they are the same.

    So which is it? Ready. Aim. Fire!

    Tom B.
     
  2. Patrick Daniel

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    The way I see it the church is simply brick and wood, nothing more. It is a place to congregate and praise Him, but simply sitting and singing does not give you access to the kingdom of God.

    The Kingdom of God is spiritual; He knows who belongs in His kingdom. He can not be fooled by those whose choose to act the part of a believer but have not yet opened their heart to Him.

    Praise be to God
     
  3. EdSutton

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    Topic question.

    " Topic: Are the Church and the Kingdom the Same? " :confused:

    Answer: Yes and No! :eek: [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Ed [​IMG]
     
  4. RandR

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    The church is sign, foretaste, etc.

    The church is neither a "parenthesis" while we wait for a completley future kingdom, nor is it the kingdom itself.

    Russell Moore at Southern and Alan Streett at Criswell College both have some pretty good articles on the subject in various places. Also, the "Progressive" Dispensationalists seem to be moving towards a more biblical "already" and "not yet" position...you might look for some articles by Bock, Blaising, et. al.
     
  5. RandR

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    Patrick,

    The church is actually flesh and bone, not brick and mortar. It is not a "place" but a "people", wouldn't you agree?
     
  6. Brother Bob

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    KJMatt.16
    "16": And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
    "17": And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
    "18": And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
    "19": And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven : and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

    When you talk of the church being bricks and mortar you are talking of the church building not the church. You can tear down the building and still the church remains. The Church is the believers in Christ, the believers in Christ is the Bride of the Lamb, the Bride of the Lamb is New Jerusalem. It also is more than flesh and bone. If the same spirit that raised Christ from the dead be in you, it shall also quicken your mortal bodies.

    Luke, chapter 17
    "20": And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation :
    "21": Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
    I don't know how you separate the Kingdom and the true Church.
     
  7. Dave

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    I think the questioner probably meant the Church as a spiritual entity. Only true believers are in this church. This is not necessarily equating to a brick and mortar structure, but all believers are part of the true church.

    As such, the church is the pre-cursor to the kingdom and should exist as the kingdom within this world (as much as is possible). In the sense of the true church, the ones who are in this are also the ones who will populate the kingdom.

    "My kingdom is not of this world" (John 18:36), "I have given them thy word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world" (John 17:14). Who was given? Those who are given the word (and those who belive on him through it, as stated a few verses down). That is the definition of the true church, no? This also describes those who belong to His kingdom, no?
     
  8. donnA

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    The church is the visible flesh and blood body of Christ on earth. It is not brick and wood, but flesh, there is a hugh difference between the church building and the church.
     
  9. Brother Bob

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    John, chapter 15
    "17": These things I command you, that ye love one another.
    "18": If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
    "19": If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world , therefore the world hateth you.

    Even though we are in the world we are not of the world.
     
  10. RandR

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    I'll take some blame for this thread's being derailed because I first responded to Patrick about the brick/mortar statement.

    But at least he was attempting to answer the original post. Perhaps the rest of our energies and replies could focus on that, too.
     
  11. RandR

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    donnA,

    Agreed that there is a difference between the church and the church building. But what about the church and the kingdom?

    Dave,

    Good thoughts. But isn't the kingdom more encompassing than the sum total of Christians past, present, and future? Is it God's reign and rule? Or God's reign and rule in and through people? I know some who would say the former and some who would say the latter. I would say the former. What say you?
     
  12. Brother Bob

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    I think I did respond to the OP, but in order to do so we had to dispel the brick and mortar theory put forth.
     
  13. Brother Bob

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    Luke, chapter 17
    "20": And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation :
    "21": Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. I don't know how you separate the Kingdom and the true Church.
    "19": If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world , but I have chosen you out of the world , therefore the world hateth you.

    Even though we are in the world we are not of the world.
     
  14. Bro Tony

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    The Church is not the Kingdom of God, it is in the Kingdom but it is not the Kingdom. Old Testament Israel is apart of the Kingdom, but it is not the Church. The tribulation saints are in the Kingdom, but they are not the Church. Millenial saints are in the Kingdom, but they are not the Church. The Kingdom consist of the saved of all ages. The Church was birthed at Pentecost and will leave at the rapture. Now how is that for a dispensational view of Scripture.

    Duck INCOMING!!!! [​IMG]

    Bro Tony
     
  15. Dave

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    RandR,

    The kingdom belongs to Jesus. I would agree with you on the reign and rule.

    Who else do you envision to be part of the Kingdom? I believe it to be all of God's people; past, present and future. Old testament believers were not called Christians, but were Israelites who were saved through faith as detailed in Hebrews 11.
     
  16. Dave

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    I guess that Bro. Tony and I just contrasted Dispensationalist and non-Dispensationist views. [​IMG]
     
  17. Brother Bob

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    John, chapter 1

    "10": He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
    "11": He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
    "12": But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    Romans, chapter 11
    "18": Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
    "19": Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
    "20": Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
    "21": For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

    Revelation, chapter 21
    12": And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
    "13": On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
    "14": And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

    incoming!!!
     
  18. Patrick Daniel

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    If you are speaking of the spiritual church then I agree with you, it is made of the believers. The point I was trying to make is simply that physical church itself will not lead to salvation.
     
  19. J. Jump

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    The kingdom of God as it relates to this earth is a literal kingdom and will one day be ruled by His Son Jesus Christ. It will be a two-fold rule that will eminate from the physical earth, which Israel will be exalted above the nations within a theocracy with Christ as the head. And Christ will also rule from the heavenlies (with His bride [made up of overcoming Christians]), which is currently occupied by Satan and the 1/3 of the angels that joined his rebellion.

    This rule will last 1,000 years and then the kingdom will be returned to God so that God will be all in all and it will become the throne of God and the Lamb.

    Beyond that we are not given much information, so we'll just have to wait and see what lies out beyond that point.
     
  20. Brother Bob

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    John, chapter 1

    "10": He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
    "11": He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
    "12": But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God , even to them that believe on his name:

    Romans, chapter 11
    "18": Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
    "19": Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
    "20": Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
    "21": For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

    Revelation, chapter 21
    12": And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
    "13": On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
    "14": And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.


    "13": But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

    "14": For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

    Ephesians, chapter 2
    "19": Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
    "20": And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
    "21": In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
    "22": In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.[/]


    incoming!!!
     

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