Are the souls of men the fallen heavenly hosts?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by TomLaPalm, May 11, 2016.

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  1. TomLaPalm

    TomLaPalm
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    From previous postings I have place this in it's own thread

    , Have you considered that the souls of men are the fallen heavenly host? Proof or disproof?
    How does this one statement change ant teachings.

    Can "fallen angels" be saved , why or why not?



    Please be prepared to discus your positions
     
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    NO....that is completely unscriptural once again. Unless you are ready to speak of scripture there is no point to this waste of time on carnal speculations.
    16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
    men reproduce after their own kind....
     
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  3. tyndale1946

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    I believe there is a scripture that covers that!... Here it is!... Brother Glen

    1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
     
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  4. kyredneck

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    4 And his tail draweth the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon standeth before the woman that is about to be delivered, that when she is delivered he may devour her child. Rev 12

    I take that as 1/3 of the angelic host went with Satan.
     
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  5. beameup

    beameup
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    And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation [oikētērion] he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Jude 6
    For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell [Tartarus] and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4
    Hint: 2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; see Genesis 6 (ie: fallen angels, angels that sinned). The Book of Enoch (non-canonical) says that only 200 angels came to earth to mingle (cohabit) with human women.
    So, apparently the vast majority of Satan's angels are presently somewhere between heaven and earth, and they will fully "materialize" on earth during the Tribulation.
     
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  6. TomLaPalm

    TomLaPalm
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    come on guys, none of what you posted negates the point. Read the verses you post

    yes, Jesus did not nor could not redeem unrelated unique created spiritual beings,

    Mankind had to be created as a vessel for sinful spiritual beings so that by one man all might be saved.
    Man is lower than the natural state of angels but "higher" than the fallen ones. The fallen ones are unable to respond to spiritual things. Sinful souls as a man are quickened so that God can offer redemption and we can decide to respond.

    The angels that left the first estate are "reserved unto judgement" not in eternal punishment. They are also here, expecting further judgement , because asked Jesus "torment before their time? after all Satan is here, too

    Please refer to Psalms 82 and listen to God.
     
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  7. TomLaPalm

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    I do too,
     
  8. TomLaPalm

    TomLaPalm
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    remember Gen 1 and darkness. Which is where they are being held, . But God made light in that darkness .Job 38:7 explains the reaction of the fallen angels and the angels from heaven.

    All fallen ones are here (where else ?) and why would they want to be in human bodies?
     
  9. TomLaPalm

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    I wanted to reply specifically to this post.

    Is it more confusing to suggest God has favorites when He says He does not
    Is it more confusing to accept Hell is made for the Devil and his angels, but God is sending man there?
    Is it more confusing to accept God placed an innocent man in the same place the arch sinner was?
     
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  10. ReformedBaptist

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    There is no distance a fallen sinful man will go in absurd belief when they reject the teaching to Scripture.
     
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  11. beameup

    beameup
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    I quoted 2 Peter 2:4. The word used there is ταρταρόω tartaróō and is not used elsewhere in the N.T.
    In classical Greek, ταρταρόω tartaróō is the subterranean region, doleful and dark, regarded by the ancient Greeks as the abode of the wicked dead, where they suffer punishment for their evil deeds.

    Related is the "bottomless pit" which is "bottomless" because it is a subterranean region of the earth (there is no "bottom" when every way is "up"). Angels that "left their first estate", left their glorified bodies [οἰκητήριον oikētḗrion], to materialize on the earth so they could copulate with human women and corrupt the human genome with hybrids (Nephilim).
     
  12. TomLaPalm

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    Are you being specific to me?

    Then you are disagreeing with Jesus on this mater. try John 10: and Psalms "ye are gods (elohyim)"
     
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  13. kyredneck

    kyredneck
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    ...and you're saying they become men? Me? I'm, or my soul once was, a fallen angel?:

     
  14. ReformedBaptist

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    Well, yes. But on the off chance I misunderstood. Let me be clear. I think you have been teaching here that the fallen angels are the spirits of human beings on earth.

    This teaching is so completely absurd that I would liken it to the nonsense I heard last night preaching the gospel to cocaine, heroin, and crack addicts. All it was worthy of was my statement about how absurd it was.
     
  15. TomLaPalm

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    The eternal part of man, the soul/spirit, are the spiritual beings, know to us as the sinful angels( a misnomer).
     
  16. TomLaPalm

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    Thanks, But if you will indulge me I would like to learn.

    Why do you find it absurd? What might you see that I have not considered?

    I started with Psalms 82:6 and John 10:34 In one verse God is talking to the host in heaven and saying they will die like men and the other Jesus is talking to evil. I adds up for me, let me know what you think.
     
  17. kyredneck

    kyredneck
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    What kind of Baptist are you?
     
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  18. TomLaPalm

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    I don't know . maybe I am very fundamentalist until I encounter a doctrinal issue or stretch in logic then I have to go to plain basic scripture and ignore man made opinion of what scriptures means and rely on what it says, even if I do not understand. In other words, I do not change scripture to mean what I think it says. . My background is more conservative than most here and the errors I saw and questioned forced me to reject commentaries and opinions and to search the Bible (in Hebrew and Greek and Aramaic) to learn what I did not understand.
     
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  19. ReformedBaptist

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    Tom, I may have time to address it tomorrow. If so, I will simply offer a simple exposition and exegesis of the text.
     
  20. TomLaPalm

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    Not for me, I hope, but study it for yourself. Remember Jesus comments, though recorded for us in Greek He was quoted Hebrew from Psalms
     
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