Are the TBN evangelists real christians?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, Aug 7, 2006.

  1. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
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    I listened to a teaching about Hinn and friends and it was really interesting.This one here:

    http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=sermonssource&sermonID=41906204152

    It clearly shows how Hinn and friends are trying to bring all kinds of different teachings into the christian mainstream and also have TBN is connected to the Vatican. Does this mean that none of these people (Hagin,Copeland,Hinn,Crouch,Brown) are real christians? Or is it possible that they are christians but only doing the wrong thing?
    I can't really understand why all those christians which love these preachers don't get it. Do they not get it or do they not want to? I think they don't want to. They simply love their TBN stars too much. :rolleyes:
    I also read that Hagin said that if somebody goes against his ministry he'll die and then he wanted to preach in a church and the pastor was against it and he dropped dead! :eek:
    How is this possible? If this wasn't from God then why did God allow it?
     
  2. Chris L.

    Chris L.
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    Are they all false teachers/Christians? I would hope not. Some may have a lack of discernment perhaps, only God can see into their hearts. A few may not have any stong love for TBN but may be using it as a means to get their message out for Christ.

    However, unity at the sake of truth is not biblical unity. My advice to you is to be very cautious of anything you see on TBN.

    You have the God given gift of discernment, use it.
     
    #2 Chris L., Aug 7, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2006
  3. Daisy

    Daisy
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    Benny Hinn has been exposed before as a huckster. Selling healing is a give away.
     
  4. xdisciplex

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    But there are things which I don't understand.

    If these things such as holy laughter or rolling on the floor are not from God then why are the real christians which go there affected by it? Does God not somehow protect them? I mean let's say a person just converted and he thinks that all these evangelists are real christians and then goes to such a church and then he watches all this or maybe he even starts to get unto this anointing and also rolls around laughing, then why did God allow this?
    What requirements have to be met in order for a christians to be affected by these things? Do we not have some protection from God? Or are all those christians willingly deceived by it?

    And another thing which I also ask myself can a pastor be a real christian and at the same time a false teacher? I mean just because somebody goes to a word of faith church and who simply learns this theology and believes in it because he only knows their arguments doesn't mean he's not a real christian. So what if all these TV evangelists are real christians but they simply got on the wrong path? I really don't understand how it is possible that 1 single person (Kenyon) starts such a movement and then he produces all these clones which teach exactly the same stuff which he did. I don't get it. Why are the people so receptive to this?
     
  5. Chris L.

    Chris L.
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    Some people may be willingly deceived, others become tied up with emotionalism, and sincerely believe what they are doing is from God, but have you ever seen on TV how those teenage girls acted at the early Beatles concerts, or the way certain followers of Voodoo or other bizarre religions put themselves in a trance? Do you think that was from the Holy God? Of course not. These charismatics behave much the same way. Others may do these things because they are under peer pressure to do them, after all everybody else is doing it too. Some are just downright frauds and charlatains, putting on a show for dubious motives.

    Many charismatics also have a way of making one feel like an outcast if they are not doing the same things that they do. They might imply that you may not really be saved, or that you don't have the Holy Spirit in you if you are not doing as they do, speaking in tongues, jumping around, etc. They may not say these things to you directly, but you'll never be the most popular on their list.

    No, a real Christian could nor be a false teacher, at least not intentionally false, but they can be ignorant or show a lack of discernment, but God can still use the foolishness of men to accomplish his will.

    If a person is truly saved, I believe they will eventually come around to the truth and find out where God want's them to be. God may be showing different people different things to make them stronger and wiser in Christ. I've been through much in my walk with Christ, going to different churches and so on, and I'm still learning.
    Remember that the Nazi party originally started with only a handful of people, and look how fast they grew and the untold damage that they caused, but in twelve years time God's judgement eventually came upon them and they were utterly destroyed. These false teachers and con artists will likewise eventually be exposed and fade away into oblivion also.

    I have no idea why so many fall for some of these charlatians. Some of them don't even do a very good job of being a deceiver, and only a complete moron would be fooled by them. I can usually tell that they're a phony right away as the discernment bells go ringing off in my head. Others are much more clever, or are sincerely deceived and they mix truth with the lies, causing confusion, and sometimes I get deceived for a short time, but If you are one who is truly seeking God, his truth will eventually show through their garbage.

    Take a look at the universe and the world around you. Our God is a God of order, not of chaos, but that is the way many of these charismatic churches are run. Jesus says to ask, seek, knock and he will open the door for us. Many people today are not truly desiring to follow Jesus, but are looking for entertainment and an emotional high. You have some discernment, which is more than I can say for a lot of Christians. Pray that God keeps you on the right path.
     
    #5 Chris L., Aug 7, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2006
  6. mima

    mima
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    When speaking of Christians and their actions questions like these arise. Is George Bush a Christian? I believe the answer is yes but I am certain that his willingness to part the land of Israel in order to form a state of Palestine, when by the way there has never been a state of Palestine nor will there ever be, is straight from the pit of hell. The idea that the land should be divided into two states goes directly against Scripture. If you don't understand this read the book of Joel where it is clearly pointed out that dividing the land is against God.
     
  7. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
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    But they also have good arguments which are not so easy to refute.
    For example they will come up with something like this:
    -The holy spirit does whatever he wants and we cannot tell him what to do.
    -This is a new move of the holy spirit, if you oppose it you blaspheme him.
    -David also danced in his underwear, which most people would have said is strange behavior.

    Is there not also a verse in the bible where the people thought the disciples were drunk cause they acted to strange? This means that they acted in a way that made the people think they are drunk.
    This is also why charismatics have this "drunk in the spirit" stuff where they laugh about act as if they are drunk and they attribute this to God. I once heard somebody say that he got "drunk" all of a sudden while driving his car and he couldn't even drive on. :confused:
    Would God do this? The problem is how can we know what God would do? If we say no he would never do this then aren't we putting God in a box and limiting him?
     
  8. Chris L.

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    When the disciples were speaking in "tongues" to the multitudes they were speaking in actual languages, that is, the different ethnic groups were hearing and understanding them in their own language at the same time. Some people, who were probably unbelievers thought they were just babbling and thus drunk.

    When God does something, he does it for a purpose. He was using the apostles to spread Christianity to the masses for the first time, and there were many diiferent ethic groups in the area at the time, thus the reason for speaking in tongues. Tell me, what purpose is there in believers babbling gibberish to other believers? I've been in charismatic churches before and heard what comes out of them and it's nothing but gibberish. Drunk people sound better! They say it's a Heavenly language, but if that's the language of Heaven, it leaves a lot to be desired. Also, the bible says that speaking in tongues would be accompanied by an interpreter, and I never heard of anyone interpreting any of the gibberish coming out of people at these churches.

    They use David dancing around in his underwear as an example, but was David given to this sort of behavior often? Are there any other biblical examples? Some charismatics do things like this on a regular basis. I have no problem if it's genuine and from the Lord, but how much of it really is?

    Here's a solution. Why don't you go hang around some charismatics and join their church. If what they teach about the Holy Spirit is true, then you'll be like them, otherwise you may not be saved according to them, and many pentacostals/charismatics also teach that you can lose your salvation. Do you really want to go through life having your salvation in constant question by a bunch of people that jump pews, flop around on the floor, and babble nonsense?
     
    #8 Chris L., Aug 7, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2006
  9. xdisciplex

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    Hi Chris,

    but are there not 2 different kind of tongues? 1 kind is the one which needs to be interpreted. But what about the other one which is simply praying in tongues? Paul said he desires everybody to pray in tongues. What about this? Paul also said he prays in tongues. This is the holy spirit who prays stuff which is secret to the person itself. Why shouldn't this exist anymore? Paul seems to have liked it then why should it have ceased?
     
  10. Chris L.

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    I don't have the Bible memorized. Can you show me the verses in scripture where Paul said he desires everybody to always pray in tongues, or where he said he always prays in tongues? If the Holy Spirit prays "stuff" to a person in secret, then why is it audible to everyone else?

    This seems to be a recurring theme with you, about these charismatic practices. You do realize that this is generally a Baptist forum? Many of us don't have a problem with these things because it is simply not our style of worship, and/or we believe them to be false. I don't know if you are trying to win people over here to pentacostalism, but as I've said before, if you believe or want to find out about these things than join a charismatic church.

    Learn the hard way through trial and error, as I have done, but I would spare you from wasting your time.
     
  11. xdisciplex

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    1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

    1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
    1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
    1Co 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
    1Co 14:17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
    1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

    This is what I mean. Praying in tongues.

    No, I am not trying to win anyone to pentecostalism.
    And besides this I know what's going on in charismatic churches. I just don't know what to think of it.
     
  12. Chris L.

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    Keep in mind that the bible was years away from being finished when Paul said these things, and nowhere did God promise these gifts would last forever. Even Paul, who had the gift of healing early on couldn't heal "the thorn in his side" in his later life.

    Paul also said that he would rather we prophecy than speak in tongues. Do you know of any Christians who prophecy today and it comes to pass? The Biblical test of a prophet is simple, if what they say doesn't come to pass than they are not from God. Whether charismatics are right or wrong doesn't matter, Paul clearly said he would rather have us prophecy, and if no one is prophesying today than the speaking in tonques could stand to be questioned as not being of God either. They don't have any strong biblical basis for making the speaking in tongues into the issue that they do.



    The Biblical canon is closed. God has revealed to us all that he wants to say for now. We are to win people to Christ and wait for our Saviours return.
     
  13. music4Him

    music4Him
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    Phi 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.


     

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