Are there any churches that don't believe in original sin?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by annsni, May 3, 2009.

  1. annsni

    annsni
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    I'm talking about any churches that have that as their doctrine that they teach. Not individual churches but denominations or whatever. Someone was asking on another board and I couldn't think of any.
     
  2. Olivencia

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    I understand that it is quite pervasive among members of the church of Christ. They throw a hissy if I refer to them as a "denomination" or that they have a "creed" :)
     
  3. annsni

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    Is it a part of their statement of beliefs or something? I'll go check it out.
     
  4. Darron Steele

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    The Churches of Christ do not have a "statement of beliefs" -- but they do have unwritten codes of
    a) religious precepts that must be accepted,
    b) religious precepts that must be rejected
    for individual members to be deemed `sound' or `faithful' or whatever word they use for acceptability.
     
  5. Alive in Christ

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    Ann,

    I'm pretty sure the Unitarian Universalists deny original sin. Not sure, but I think so.

    I'll check on it...

    >>>"EDIT"<<<

    Ok. Here it is.

    These are a few of the apostate Unitarian Universalist beliefs that are pure heresy, including what you are asking about...


    :godisgood:
     
    #5 Alive in Christ, May 4, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2009
  6. Gup20

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    Can you define "original sin"?
     
  7. Rippon

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    Well, for starters go to Romans 5:12-19. If you affirm that the Scriptures do indeed teach it -- then you are being biblical -- if, on the other hand you deny Holy Writ that will be problematic for you.
     
  8. Thinkingstuff

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    I love this phrase. Just saying. Holy is refrencing Sacred which is defined as "1 a: dedicated or set apart" and Writ refering to writings. Which is wonderfully anonymous. Any writing that is set apart for something specific or dedicated to that purpose can be considered Holy Writ. :laugh:

    BTW I think the Orthodox and the Copts don't view original sin the way we do.
     
  9. FriendofSpurgeon

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    Besides Unity and the Universalists, the only one I could think of might be the United Church of Christ. See www.ucc.org for information.
     
  10. billwald

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    went there

    >Well, for starters go to Romans 5:12-19.

    It teaches that all humans will sin, not that all humans are born guilty of sin e.g. sinners. We are born with the potential and will fulfill the potential.
     
  11. Gup20

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    I have an idea of what Original Sin is, and I know what Romans 5 says, but neither of these are an answer to my question. The term "original sin" does not appear in Romans 5, therefore "original sin" is a collection of ideas external to Romans 5 meant to explain a particular Biblical concept.

    I asked Annsni to define it so that we would all be dealing with the same information. Whomever invented the term "original sin" may have had a different idea of what it entailed than does Annsni, or you, or I do. If a definition of what is meant by the term "original sin" can be given, we can answer the original post's question - Are there any churches that don't believe in original sin? - more accurately.

    To you, Rippon I would ask you to give us your definition of "it" (from your statement above) as well. Also, does your term "holy writ" limit itself to the 66 books of the Bible, or does it also include other Canonical documents?
     
  12. steaver

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    I believe Ann was speaking of "Christian" churches. Those who confess Jesus Christ is Lord (capital L, God)

    :jesus:
     
  13. steaver

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    I always thought "original sin" was the doctrine of how sin entered the world. Adam sinned (The Original Sin) and therefore sin passed to all living.

    :jesus:
     
  14. Agnus_Dei

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    The Orthodox Christian Church has a different view of Original Sin as does the West, which may be outlined as follows:

    In the Orthodox Faith, the term "original sin" refers to the "first" sin of Adam and Eve. As a result of this sin, humanity bears the "consequences" of sin, the chief of which is death. Here the word "original" may be seen as synonymous with "first." Hence, the "original sin" refers to the "first sin" in much the same way as "original chair" refers to the "first chair."

    In the West, humanity likewise bears the "consequences" of the "original sin" of Adam and Eve. However, the West also understands that humanity is likewise "guilty" of the sin of Adam and Eve. The term "Original Sin" here refers to the condition into which humanity is born, a condition in which guilt as well as consequence is involved.

    In the Orthodox Christian understanding, while humanity does bear the consequences of the original, or first, sin, humanity does not bear the personal guilt associated with this sin. Adam and Eve are guilty of their willful action; we bear the consequences, chief of which is death.

    One might look at all of this in a completely different light. Imagine, if you will, that one of your close relatives was a mass murderer. He committed many serious crimes for which he was found guilty, and perhaps even admitted his guilt publicly. You, as his or her son or brother or cousin, may very well bear the consequences of his action - people may shy away from you or say, "Watch out for him - he comes from a family of mass murderers." Your name may be tainted, or you may face some other forms of discrimination as a consequence of your relative’s sin. You, however, are not personally guilty of his or her sin.

    In XC
    -
     
  15. Gup20

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    Yes, but are we defining "original sin" as just the first sin?
    Are we talking about the original sin as the Catholics see it - that we all participate in the first sin by heredity (sometimes called ancestral sin)?
    Are we talking about the automatic guilt of all humans through collective guilt?
    Are we talking about inheriting sin distinct from our own committed sins?
    Are we talking about original sin being the actual cause behind us sinning?
    Are we talking about Original Sin as the Roman Catholics (who invented the phrase) define it?
    Are we talking about Original Sin as Judaism (which doesn't believe in original sin) take it?
    If we are talking about inheriting a "sin nature" what we are really saying is that we share in the guilt of Adam for his action. Are we saying that we bear the guilt of Adam's action, or are we made sinners when we ourselves first sin?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin

    I've made the argument on other threads that Romans 5:12 doesn't say "sin is passed" it says "death is passed".
    Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
    But there are certainly those who disagree with this scripture and say that sin was passed. They say that sin is passed via Adam in that we share the guilt of Adam's first sin because we are descended from Adam.

    I personally think this disagrees with scripture:
    Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
    Therefore, I disagree with ancestral sin, and the Roman Catholic definition of Original Sin, and some of the people here who say that "sin is passed" rather than "death is passed" as Romans 5:12 says.

    This is why I ask annsni to define "original sin". It means many different things to many different people.
     
  16. Gup20

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    While I cannot speak to the accuracy of the history of your post, the content is quite eloquently, simply, and succinctly stated.

    I would wholeheartedly agree with what you call the view of the Orthodox Faith in which humanity bears the consequences of the first sin, but not the guilt of the first sin. This is perfectly stated.

    Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
     
  17. steaver

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    I don't believe we are "really" saying anything more than by the fallen state of nature we sin even from the womb. I believe that by the fallen state of nature we sin, not that anyone is guilty of another's sin. In other words, we are "by nature" bent on sinning from the womb. This is why two year olds lust after each others stuff, they have that sin nature and the curse of death.

    I believe Romans 5:12 taken in it's entirety says just this.
    Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
    1) sin entered
    2) death by sin
    3) death passed upon ALL
    4) for (or because) ALL have sinned

    How does a baby experience desease, say cancer, and die without sin causing that death? The scripture states "death by sin".

    :jesus:
     
    #17 steaver, May 4, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2009
  18. Alive in Christ

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    Steaver,

    Thats probably the case, but in her original post she simply said "churches", as opposed to "christian churches".

    So I thought I'd throw that out there just in case she meant ANY groups that consider themselves to be "churches".


    :godisgood:
     
  19. annsni

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    Normally this would be the case but I'm asking the question because it came up on a secular board I'm on and I just didn't know ANY. I'm not familiar with a lot of the non-Christian churches and I'm not sure how much you guys would be either but I'll take any religious organization that claims itself to be a "church". :)
     
  20. Gup20

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    I agree with you that we have a "sin nature". I also agree with you that we develop this tendency towards sin at a very young age (even in the womb). But I also believe that we get this tendency through our fear of death. I would call "hunger", for example, a fear of death. The only point I would have is that we do not inherit "sin". We do inherit death.

    Hbr 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

    Just as Agnus_Dei has said... the consequences of Adam's sin are shared by all (the Curse, for example), whereas the guilt of that sin is Adam's alone. Each of us are guilty of our own sin when we, through fear of death, tend to sin. Are we born with that tendency to sin? Absolutely. Why? Because we inherit sin? No, but because we inherit death, and we fear death, therefore we tend to sin.

    An example would be a baby who is hungry and cries for his mother's milk. The baby can feel the effects of death - hunger - and cries to have it's own needs met.
     

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