Are there even biblical arminians posting On The baptist Board?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Yeshua1, Oct 22, 2012.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    that would hold to the 5 decrees of the official Arminian theology positions?

    The Five Articles
    of Remonstrance

    Conditional election
    Unlimited atonement
    Total depravity
    Prevenient grace
    Conditional preservation
     
  2. HeirofSalvation

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    Yes....there are, but "Conditional Preservation" has always been a debatable one, and to call oneself "Arminian" does not necessarily imply a belief in the last one as you pose.
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    think that one is debatable within Arminian circles, as even the "founder" of the system was not sure of it, just was showing there might be a real possibility o fone commiting Apostasy!

    Also think many claiming there are Arms here would be surprised that they pretty much would affirm with cals that Man is dead in sin/depraived, and that God Grace must be applied in order to have us respond by faith to Christ, as unless He enables us we cannot come to him!

    some seem to hold to deniel of original sin, intact free will, Bible message alone can save us etc...

    THAT is NOT arminianism!
     
  4. HeirofSalvation

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  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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  6. Amy.G

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    Is there such a thing as a "biblical" Arminian? :laugh:
     
  7. mont974x4

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    shhh I think the OP meant "classical" Arminian. Get some popcorn and enjoy the show you know was predestined to happen.
     
  8. HeirofSalvation

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    :thumbs:NICE!!!!:thumbs::applause: That was a good one...
     
  9. Yeshua1

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    actually, before converting to being a full calvinist, did see the website for 'Evangelical Arminianism" and they seemed to be the best of the group holding to it!
     
  10. InTheLight

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  11. HeirofSalvation

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  12. convicted1

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    I deny Augustine's idea of OS, but I do agree with the biblical version of it. Adam died and now causes all of us to die the physical death. We die spiritually after we knowingly and willingly sin against God.
     
  13. Amy.G

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    So infants don't need the Savior?
     
  14. Michael Wrenn

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    I don't believe in total depravity or the Augustinian view of original sin.

    In fact, I don't agree with anything that came out of the Latin West.
     
  15. HeirofSalvation

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    Agreed, This thread is merely an equivocation betwixt "Original Sin" the yet unmentioned "Original Guilt" (also assumed) and "Total Inability"...but your assessment is Biblically and obviously correct. In Adam, we all do die (physically) but Adam also begat Seth..."in his own image" and that was, indeed, as a sinner, as any Calvinist would teach....Calvinists, though, usually do not distinguish between this "Spiritual Death" and "Physical Death"... "Original Sin", is indeed true....but too many assumptions are usually smuggled in with that obvious Biblical Truth.....Yes, there is indeed a "Biblical" doctrine of "Original Sin", but it doesn't entail the "Total inability" or even the "Original Guilt" that Calvinist Theology usually equates with it..........They may BOTH actually be true!!!!!! But they shouldn't use the Biblical expression of "Original Sin" in order to "prove" it!!!....They are NOT synonymous. That is where the confusion usually lies. It is a lack of teaching people basic logic. And Americans are indeed rarely taught how to distinguish propositions like these, without confusing them...Most simply have not been taught or learned how to do so.
     
  16. convicted1

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    Never stated this.


    If a child accidently shoots one of it's siblings, did it kill? Yup. Will a court convict this child(I am talking about a 3-5 year old, btw)? No. Why? It has to do with intent. Sin is a concious effort in rebelling against God. To KNOW to do good, and doeth it not, to him, is sin.


    When a little kid steals a cookie after their parents told them not to, and they lie and say they were getting it for them, did that child lie? Absolutely. Is them lying to their parents a sin. Sure. They lied because they didn't want their "bum bum" swatted, and not that they knew they were lying in the sight of God.
     
  17. HeirofSalvation

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    No, they don't....as the Apostle Paul said:
    Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
     
    #17 HeirofSalvation, Oct 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2012
  18. HeirofSalvation

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    Solid....Solid.....and true on all accounts....My little girls (I have four between the ages of 4 and ....well...zero)...and it is amazing how often they are getting things, "For me".
     
    #18 HeirofSalvation, Oct 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2012
  19. convicted1

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    I dunno about that Brother.

    Without Christ's work on the cross, even infants would be in hell. Christ died, and we who believe, are saved. I believe that babies are born in a "state of grace", where God overlooks their sins until they truly know the ramifications of said sins. Sin is a knowing and willing breaking of God's commands.
     
  20. HeirofSalvation

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    That may be true...I honestly don't know for sure. So, maybe I should be careful about how I express the notion that there are NO dead infants who are in Hell...possibly, they are somehow "saved" (but that assumes "Original Guilt") and frankly...I do not presently accept or assume that...It could be true I guess. But, we now then have a quandry don't we???? If all who die in infancy are somehow "covered" or "forgiven" or are party to "grace" or (pick your verbiage) then it now behooves us, as Christians, to attempt to ensure that as many people die in infancy as concievably possible...Abortion, then, is God's greatest harvest of souls.... We cannot argue from some ignorance that "maybe they will all be saved"...because we absolutely know better. We are then left with a Calvinist assumption that only "elect" infants are saved...or we must think otherwise....I think "Original Guilt" might be the assumption we are making, which is giving you some pause. I don't blame you, it has dominated much of my thinking for most of my life...But we either are somehow forced to believe these possibilities:

    1.) They are all born "guilty" and "condemned" but God saves them without respect to whether they ever do or do not, acknowledge him.
    2.) There are some who are "elect" and will therefore be saved, and some who won't...and...sux to be the infant who wasn't "elect".
    3.) None of them are, as of yet, actually guilty, and if they are "saved" than it is legally un-questionable as they are yet guilty of nothing, and they are therefore not discriminated against...(because they are too young to accept)...but neither are they given a "special" form of grace unavailable to all of us who had the mis-fortune to grow-up, because they are simply not legally guilty of any wrong-doing as we on this board obviously are...

    An assumption of "Original Guilt" is critical here....and I am not sure, brother, whether that is supported Scripturally. It may be. But I am questioning whether the Bible itself, and not merely my own Baptist tradition...which stems from much Calvinist assumption... teaches this notion or not. Does it?
     
    #20 HeirofSalvation, Oct 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2012

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