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Are there "true salvations" if a false gospel is presented?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by MalkyEL, Apr 19, 2004.

  1. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    If you are under conviction, the Lord can use anyone or anything to deliver the message...

    I have listened to sermons and gotten something totally different from them that what was intended. That's because my heart was open and the Holy Spirit gave me what I needed.
     
  2. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    That is kind of funny, because the Bible explicitly states in two places that it is through the preaching of the gospel that people come to faith (1 Cor. 1 and Rom 10).

    You have a new way?

    What part of Scripture can we include 'broccoli' as a valid evangelistic method?
     
  3. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    I can't believe you took 'broccoli' as a literal term. I was trying to make a point...

    People can come to faith by reading the Word of God. People have come to faith by listening to me and I, in no way, consider myself a preacher.

    My point was that God can use any means He so chooses to bring someone under conviction and ultimately to bring them to Himself.

    Have you never sat in church and been convicted of something that was entirely different than what the Preacher was talking about?

    I'm not quite sure what it is that you think I'm disagreeing with you about...
     
  4. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Sue, I see your point 100%. That's happenned to me on a Sunday morning more times than I can count. That's what we call the Holy Spirit soeaking to us (at the same time the preacher is speaking to us). I remember once reading the story of the prodigal son with my kids, and we all got a different message out of it, depending on which character we identified with.
     
  5. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    Sue, is the voice audible? If not, please use a Scriptural answer because I don't see what you are saying as lining up with Scripture.

    Salvation comes through the gospel alone, not broccoli.
     
  6. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    Thank you John. I knew I couldn't be the only person who is open to the leading of the Holy Spirit! And I certainly did not think I was being that obtuse.

    No, the voice is not audible DD!

    Forget 'broccoli'...

    I will try to explain it one more time.

    The preacher can say one thing and the Holy Spirit may speak to my heart about something totally different.

    It's like reading the same scripture and getting something different each time.

    Or witnessing an accident. Four people will see the same accident and describe it differently.

    A noise rings through the night - four people will hear the same noise, but will not describe it in the same way.

    The Holy Spirit knows what I need and that is exactly what He gives to me - if my heart is open - regardless of who is saying what...
     
  7. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    Sue, how do you know that what you claim the Holy Spirit is saying actually is the Holy Spirit? You realize that this is subjective don't you?
     
  8. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    DD: I can only speak for myself.

    I know it is the Holy Spirit because it lines up with the Word of God...

    The Bible tells us to 'test the spirits'.
     
  9. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    What if your interpretation is off base? Then you are blaming God for telling you bad theology.

    Do you also believe that the sign gifts are around today, like tongues and prophecy?
     
  10. C.S. Murphy

    C.S. Murphy New Member

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    Daniel David, let me explain what I believe the dear lady is saying to us. When you hear the word of God preached and you are under conviction God will use it to speak directly to you. He can also use pastors, songs, laypeople, the written word e.t.c. to share His message. Personally I see no reason for you to question her interpretation or jump off into questioning her about tongues and prophecy. I may be wrong as I am alot of the time but I fail to see anything in her posting on this thread that required such a responce.
    Murph
     
  11. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    Thank you Murph! That is exactly what I am saying!
     
  12. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    Murph, my initial response was triggered due to her saying that God can use anything. That really isn't the question. Of course God can use anything. The question is what does God use.

    To say that a person can be saved with a skewed understanding of the gospel is not accurate. That IS how the Holy Spirit works.

    This also goes back to the point I have been hammering, that a person must believe in the biblical portrait of Christ, and not the Christ of their own imagination.

    I understand how the Holy Spirit convicts people, but how many people say God told them something during a sermon only to be something of horrible theology such as:

    1. God told me to leave my wife...
    2. " " live with my girlfriend before marriage
    3. " " told me to be KJVO
    4. " " told me to _________

    You see what I am saying? So much bad theology is blamed on God. It is just so subjective. It is really sad how charismatic and experientially driven people have become. I am not saying that is Sue, but the post did make me think that.
     
  13. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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  14. C.S. Murphy

    C.S. Murphy New Member

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  15. C.S. Murphy

    C.S. Murphy New Member

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    Yes I see what you mean, I suppose you and I looked at her statements differently. Some of what she said may not have been letter perfect but I accepted the general meaning. I like what you said in the last sentence. " I am not saying that is Sue" Thanks [​IMG] Murph
     
  16. Ken4JC

    Ken4JC New Member

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    I think that the Holy Ghost (the one that calls us to Christ) is the only true witness; any part of life can become a drawing point to bring us to understand the price paid for our salvation. Of all the movies that corrupt the message of the Gospel “the Passion” and “the Last Temptation of Christ” are the worst, but even in this muck the Holy Ghost could lead a heart to a true conversion in Christ. For me the rub point is that the ‘Passion’ is getting used by a large part of the neo-evangelical community as a track, much the same as some of the other productions. For example I was talking about this to a United Methodist, and pointed out that the movie is an Roman Catholic passion play and any that came to Christ by such a production would be infected with sickening error in understanding the truth of the Gospel. The reply was that it was the responsibility of the Church to address this problem. My reply was would your church do that? In fact would your church even address open sin in more than a form of gossip that would never reach the victim in any real way at all as long as the money was coming to the offering? This person has left the conversation like the rich man departing from Jesus Christ and we do not talk any more. The message of the cross comes from many forms and motivations, I have seen pure Holy Bible preaching expressed with great delivery from the mouth of beautiful looking preachers with perfect families that had no other motivation that the next car payment, or a larger paycheck. Now we get to the truth of the matter it is the reception of the call of God not the value of the one sharing the message. Now discipleship of the new convert is an altogether different topic, then we need to have a real foundation in the Holy Bible and the direction of the Holy Ghost. I think that it is much easier to heal the confusion of the convert of “The Passion” than to heal the confusion of the convert of the perfect looking ministry motivated by big money and community power or denominational recognition. :D
     
  17. Watchman

    Watchman New Member

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    From the very beginning I have been very critical of this movie because of it's content, that is, it contains error and seems to concentrate too much on the violence.
    That said, do I think that it is POSSIBLE that there will be people in heaven some day because they were convicted by The Holy Spirit when they watched this movie? Yes I do, that is certainly possible.
    It is worthwhile I feel to look to the Bible and see if God ever used unusual means to deliver a message. Yes, He did.
    Certainly the oddest means I have ever heard of was that of Balaam's donkey. Peter would write of this:
    "They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor, who loved the wages of wickedness. But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey-a beast without speech-who spoke with a man's voice and restrained the prophet's madness." 2Peter 2:15-16
    Granted, the beast did not speak to Balaam on how to be saved, but, the fact is, the message was from God. So it is that God CAN, and did, use unusual means to convey a message.
     
  18. Ken4JC

    Ken4JC New Member

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    Amen, Watchman.

    But just because God used a beast to speak the truth that dose not mean we need to start a ministry of 'beast' witness. Or make the beast into a god, for that mater even endorse the beast as a good and true witness. This has been done with the ‘Passion’ and many other pretenders to the things that we should do on our own in obedience to God the Father. :D
    2 Tim 4:1-5
     
  19. Watchman

    Watchman New Member

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