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Are these guys Baptists?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Eladar, Aug 6, 2003.

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  1. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    http://www.judson.org/guide.htm

    I found this same congregation by using the American Baptist Church search by putting in the parameters of New York, New York, Zip 10012 at this site:

    http://www.abcis.org/public/ChurchSearch.asp


    It is true that the name on the Church is not 'Baptist', but they are recognized by ABC as being Baptists. So are these guys Baptists?
     
    #1 Eladar, Aug 6, 2003
  2. Taufgesinnter

    Taufgesinnter New Member

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    They wouldn't be the only ABC I'd ever heard of that was simultaneously UCC.
     
    #2 Taufgesinnter, Aug 6, 2003
  3. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    No... but you're very welcome to join them for Free Beer and snacks.

    In my book, they are NOT Baptists.

    Diane
     
    #3 dianetavegia, Aug 6, 2003
  4. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    Diane,

    Doesn't your opinion about what is right and what is wrong stop at the local congregation? It's been a very common idea I've heard espoused by many on this board, that each local congregation has the right and authority to define itself.


    One side question:

    Who decides which churches are accepted as ABC and which churches don't quite fit the bill?
     
    #4 Eladar, Aug 6, 2003
  5. trying2understand

    trying2understand New Member

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    What is it that makes you say that they are not Baptist?

    The quote doesn't address their beliefs, merely what one must do to formally obtain church membership.

    If they otherwise hold to the traditional Baptist distinctives, would they not be Baptist?
     
    #5 trying2understand, Aug 6, 2003
  6. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    You asked are they Baptist. When they allow members to join on statment without baptism or to join because they need something for work... that's not according to the Baptist Articles of Faith. They are NOT Baptists.

    They even distance themselves from Baptist with this statement:
    Why do you non-Baptists even give a hoot about this. It is to ridicule our beliefs.... The two of you have seen our Articles on Faith on several threads the last few days. I'm sure you remember them well.

    Diane
     
    #6 dianetavegia, Aug 6, 2003
  7. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    Daine,

    Who let these guys in, if they should not be Baptists? I asked you a question earlier about those articles. Is every Baptist required to accept those articles or what?

    Being forced to accept doctrine from outside the local congregation seems to go against Baptist beliefs.
     
    #7 Eladar, Aug 6, 2003
  8. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    Someone posted that there are 143 groups that call themselves Baptist. I am not an expert on those 143 groups. In fact, I had no idea there were so many.

    So, I cannot answer about the 'general name' Baptist.

    However, Baptism is a core belief. This church does not require baptism for membership. Therefore, they are not true Baptists. You've admitted yourself that they do not use Baptist in their name and are affiliated with several ultra liberal church groups.

    Diane
     
    #8 dianetavegia, Aug 6, 2003
  9. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    Here is what Clint posted once or twice,
    What happens when these distinctivenesses run into each other.

    What happens if 'A' and 'I' don't agree with 'B' and 'T- Two ordinances'?
     
    #9 Eladar, Aug 6, 2003
  10. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    How about these guys, are they Baptists?

    Lake Avenue Baptist Church

    Here is how they do membership. You can find it under FAQS.
    The Association of Welcoming & Affirming Baptists seems to be a hot bed of these sorts of 'Baptists'.

    Here is a link to their website:

    The Association of Welcoming & Affirming Baptists

    Look in the churches link to find Judson Memorial Church is a part of this one too. ;)
     
    #10 Eladar, Aug 6, 2003
  11. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    I'd say yes: A profession of faith, and believer's baptism. Yup, they qualify. Mainline Baptists may not like or agree with their biblical interpretations, but the Baptist Distinctive of church autonomy implies that congregations are free to biblical interpretation as they see fit. While most of us may disagree with them on such interpretation, they still qualify as a Baptist congregation.
     
    #11 Johnv, Aug 6, 2003
  12. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    A believer's baptism is not required for membership.
     
    #12 Eladar, Aug 6, 2003
  13. computerjunkie

    computerjunkie New Member

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    I'm with Diane on this one. I have seen this discussion for several days now. Why is this such a big deal to someone who is not a Baptist?

    If you are a non-Baptist and would like to join a Baptist church, great! You have heard many times what we believe in order for you to be a member of a Baptist church. If you are just looking for information, this is what we believe about membership in a Baptist church, and you have heard this many times also! So what's the issue here?

    CJ
     
    #13 computerjunkie, Aug 6, 2003
  14. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    The issue stems from the definition of a 'Baptist' given in another thread. According to the definition given, these guys are not Baptists, yet they belong to at least two different Baptist denominations.
     
    #14 Eladar, Aug 6, 2003
  15. computerjunkie

    computerjunkie New Member

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    Oh, yeah...I remember that now! (Sorry...forgot what started all of this!)

    I don't remember who they were, but why don't they call the church office of the Baptist churches they believe they are members of and ask if they are, according to church records, considered members of the particular church. Then we can take it from there!

    As I said in one of my previous posts, a lot of people in my church "think" they are members, but they may not actually BE members...officially.

    CJ
     
    #15 computerjunkie, Aug 6, 2003
  16. Clint Kritzer

    Clint Kritzer Active Member
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    Hi Nils -

    This would be the first "Baptist" church I have ever heard of that did not require baptism by immersion. I have known of cases (in the modern day) where pouring was acceptable, such as if the person is incapacitated and their safety could be jeapordized by bringing them into a baptismal.

    The ABC has a rather liberal (in the classic sense) acceptance policy and are affiliated with many groups and demoninations that are not Baptist. The UCC is also liberal (in the modern sense) and I think they accept about anyone with an active checking account.

    In answer to your question, I would say no, they are not Baptist. It requires a profession of faith FOLLOWED by baptism, or transfer from another church of like doctrine to become a member of all Baptist assemblies I have encountered.

    The "voting non-member" thing is pretty weird, too. Why on earth would anyone allow a non-member to vote? To each his own I suppose, but I would not walk away from that church, I would run!
     
    #16 Clint Kritzer, Aug 6, 2003
  17. Clint Kritzer

    Clint Kritzer Active Member
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    The UCC is not Baptist. They are ecumenical.

    http://www.ucc.org/aboutus/index.html
     
    #17 Clint Kritzer, Aug 6, 2003
  18. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    Hey Clint!

    Did you see the second link I posted to a Baptist church that does not require Baptism to become a member?
     
    #18 Eladar, Aug 6, 2003
  19. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    I found them using an ABC search engine. They are apart of the ABC denomination of the Baptist faith.
     
    #19 Eladar, Aug 6, 2003
  20. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

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    The UCC was formed through the union of four theological streams: Congregationalist, Evangelical (in a German/Lutheran/Reformed sense), Reformed (again - German/Lutheran), and Christian (similar to Disciples of Christ). They believe in preserving congregational autonomy - and consequently there are some baptist churches that have dually aligned with them. Our church is one of them.

    Joshua
     
    #20 Rev. Joshua, Aug 6, 2003
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