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Are these guys Baptists?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Eladar, Aug 6, 2003.

  1. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    Hey Josh,

    I was hoping you'd join in since you belong to a Baptist church with more than one affiliation.
     
  2. Clint Kritzer

    Clint Kritzer Active Member
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    Yes, I did. I think the operative phrase is: "As a church we do not have doctrinal requirements for membership."

    They have disregarded Biblical statutes for membership. I would guess that (a) they lost any sense of Biblical education, or (b) the wolves got to them and dragged them down.

    There are scores of churches that should have removed the name "Baptist" from their signs and penned in "community" or some such term. They are probably living in ignorance.
     
  3. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    Are they officially 'Baptists'?
     
  4. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

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    Clint,

    That's why I did a series on the historic doctrines of Christianity last year at Lent, and I'll probably make a tradition of that.

    NEW MEMBER CLASSES! NEW MEMBER CLASSES! NEW MEMBER CLASSES!

    Sorry to repeat myself, but it's really important.

    Joshua
     
  5. Clint Kritzer

    Clint Kritzer Active Member
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    The thing with "affiliations" that you may not understand, Nils, is that they are established to pool money for more effective ministry and operational financing. They do not operate as Vaticans, that is to say, they do not govern the churches.

    There are times that churches will be disqualifed or have their memberships terminated if they do not meet the affiliation's criteria. Some affiliations have no criteria whatsoever and, therefore, whoever sends funds has membership and voting rights.
     
  6. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    That's not very accepting of you Joshua.

    You know there are those who believe in baptism by fire.
     
  7. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    Do the ABC and The Association of Welcoming & Affirming Baptists have no criteria whatsoever?

    The ABC is listed as a Baptist denomination in the title of a forum at this site. :confused:
     
  8. Clint Kritzer

    Clint Kritzer Active Member
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    I suspect that the US census bureau counts them as such, so, yeah, I reckon.

    If an unbaptized member of such a church joined this board I am quite sure that we, the administration, would be in complete agreement that they do not qualify. After all, our name IS Baptist! :rolleyes:

    So I guess it depends on who you consider official. [​IMG]
     
  9. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    So you are willing to over ride the decision of an other person's local congregation?

    This is the first time I've heard you make such a comment. ;)
     
  10. Clint Kritzer

    Clint Kritzer Active Member
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    I found this at the ABC-USA site. It's rather vague with no real firm commitments: http://www.abc-usa.org/identity/idstate.html

    There are other's that use the "ABC" acrostic as well, such as the NABC and such. I am assuming that the ABC-USA is the affiliation in question.

    The Scriptures are so specific on the importance of baptism that it is rather inseperable from New Tesament doctrine. Though non-salvific, it is a requirement for obedience, that is to say, it occurs after regeneration, and is symbolic of the willingness to demonstrate obedience.

    While I respect the rights of an autonomous congregation, in my opinion, this disregard for the neccessity of baptism for membership is ludicrous. Mind you, this hypothetical decision on the part of this board would have no bearing on that church just as that church's decision would have no bearing on us. Also, being hypothetical, my associates may disagree (but I doubt it).

    The B-A-P-T-I-S-T-S acronym you cited on the first page represents some extremely fragile principles. I have watched a disregard for many of them from many here, but I had no idea that the Ordinances were in danger! I guess I shouldn't really be surprised. It makes me appreciate my own church even more.
     
  11. Clint Kritzer

    Clint Kritzer Active Member
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    Hey, Nils! I found this on the link I gave you for the ABC-USA!

    I see one of three possibilities:

    1) The ABC doesn't want to cut them off because of funding;

    2) The ABC doesn't stand behind their own doctrinal statement; or

    3) The ABC is unaware of that church's policy.

    If it's #3, maybe you should blow the whistle on them! ;)
     
  12. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    Is the Bible any less specific about the homosexuality?

    As I stated earlier, there are those who interpret baptism as "baptism by fire".

    I think I will contact someone about these churches. We'll see what kind of reaction I get.
     
  13. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    I tried calling them, but got the run around all the way to someone's answering machine. I have also set an e-mail. Perhaps I'll get a response. I'm not holding my breath.
     
  14. dumbox1

    dumbox1 Guest

    Can I toss in a related question? (Or maybe it's the same question). This came up in a discussion with my wife a few days ago.

    Assume that someone (say, my mother-in-law) was raised Methodist, and baptized as an infant in a Methodist church. Later, she begins attending a Baptist church. Would she need to be rebaptized as an adult believer before she's considered a member? Or would something else (I don't know what -- perhaps answering an altar call, or filling out a membership form, or something) suffice?

    Many thanks for any enlightenment on this,

    Mark
     
  15. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    Mark H., Baptist churches do not accept infant baptism or any baptism other than immersion (heath concerns like total paralysis, etc exception here). Your mother in law would have to be baptized in the Baptist church.

    Diane
     
  16. dumbox1

    dumbox1 Guest

    Thanks Diane! That's pretty much what I had thought.

    Does everybody else agree with Diane, or are there variances in Baptist practice on this?

    (I don't want to tell my wife anything prematurely! ;) )

    Mark
     
  17. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Chuches vary but while infant baptism would not be accepted in our church, we will usually accept one who was immersion-baptised as a believer whether or not it was in a Baptist church or not.

    Rob
     
  18. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    But since the Baptist Distinctive of local automony allows each church to interpret scripture as it sees fit, how you or I interpret biblical statutes for membership is irrelevant. As a Baptist church, their membership requirements are allowable. The only one in question in this case may be what they constitute a believer's baptism.
     
  19. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    It seems to me that those Baptist churches that have dual affiliation would accept infant baptism. Joshua, am I correct about that?

    As for the traditional Baptists, they fit in line with what Diane said.
     
  20. Clint Kritzer

    Clint Kritzer Active Member
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    While there are sects of Christianity that do not believe in a symbolic act involving water (the Quakers come to mind), by and large the whole of Christendom practices in some way an act that requires water. To disregard the act of baptism by an assembly that calls itself "Baptist" would involve a completely spontaneous and contrary doctrine on the part of the assembly.

    As I stated, there are scores of churches that should have scratched the name of Baptist from their signs. The very term "Baptist" comes from the Anglicized Greek for immerse. Check out Strong's Greek lexicon #911 and #907. There is little question that this is in reference to a water ceremony. If there is still a doubt, look at Acts 8:36-38.

    Baptism is an ancient act. We really don't even have an originating point for it. It's lost in antiquity. Many, many ancient cultures exercised baptism, some even using animal blood.

    The distinctive of church autonomy does not over rule the other distinctives. They are bound together and intermix as a philosophical system. For example the Church of Christ has two offices in the church, but that doesn't make them Baptists. Atheists believe in a seperation of church and state, but that doesn't make them Baptists either. For a church to really be Baptist, all the distictives must be followed.

    As I also said before, many congregations are living in ignorance. In a way, it's our own fault for not putting enough stress on doctrinal training in the past century.
     
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