Are We In the Process of Being Saved?

Discussion in 'Forum for Polls' started by Enow, Sep 1, 2009.

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Are We In the Process of Being Saved?

  1. Yes: I'll explain why below with scriptures

    5 vote(s)
    38.5%
  2. No: We have been bought with a price & sealed as His

    8 vote(s)
    61.5%
  3. No: Those that fell away were never saved in the first place

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. I don't know

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Enow

    Enow
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    This poll is to give pause for a subtle teaching that has crept into the body of Christ.

    I believe we are saved as in bought at a price and sealed as His: with the emphasis on our walk with Him by faith in the Son of God with no looking to myself or any boast in the flesh to do so for I follow Him by faith by the grace of God for He is My Enabler.
     
  2. Johnv

    Johnv
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    In your OP, you mentioned the "Process of Being Saved". Some will argue that it's an event, but I like the idea of it being a process. That seems more consistent with salvation being tied to a relationship rather than an act. Just my $.02
     
  3. annsni

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    He HAS saved us (regeneration) – Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
    He IS saving us (sanctification) – 2 Cor. 4:16 Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.
    He WILL save us (glorification) – 1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
     
  4. rdwhite

    rdwhite
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    Amen, it is a rare thing to find much teaching on sanctification these days. It seems like all the attention is on regeneration or glorification. It is probably a result of the absence of holiness/righteousness from the majority of pulpits.
     
  5. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
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    For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. - 1 Corinthians 1:18 NASB
     
  6. Enow

    Enow
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    We cannot be witnesses of the Good News in Christ Jesus if we have not been saved yet.
     
  7. Enow

    Enow
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    Thanks for the clarity, however, the problem of saying that salvation is a process as in referring to the second stage, tends to blur the effect of the first stage, especially since you included sanctification in the second stage to achieve.

    That sanctification part has been received, but there is the renewing of our minds in Christ Jesus as walking n ot after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    2 Thessalonians 2: 13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    1 Corinthians 1:29That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

    There is a call to maintain that sanctification:

    1 Thessalonians 4: 3For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: 4That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; 5Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:

    But there is always to be the knowledge that we have received sanctification through the belief of the truth.

    1 Peter 1:2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
     
  8. Enow

    Enow
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    As long as we live by faith in the Son of God that we have received that sanctification as we also live by faith in the Son of God to help us maintain that sanctification... then we can look forward to Jesus finishing in bringing us Home as He is the author of our faith in our running that race.

    But to work for the sanctification is.. labouring in unbelief. The emphasis should always be by the faith in Jesus Christ to live that christian life.
     
  9. Enow

    Enow
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    That is why I prefer the King James Bible, and why some believers think they are in the process of being saved when using the other Bibles.

    1 Corinthians 1:18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

    One cannot be witnesses of the Good News if we are not saved yet. Christianity would just be another religion then, but it is not for it is not about the believers, but Whom the believers entrust in: Jesus Christ; the Good News to man.:jesus::thumbs::applause::godisgood:
     
  10. Enow

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    Psalm 121: 1I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help.

    2My help cometh from the LORD, which made heaven and earth.

    3He will not suffer thy foot to be moved: he that keepeth thee will not slumber.

    4Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep.

    5The LORD is thy keeper: the LORD is thy shade upon thy right hand.

    6The sun shall not smite thee by day, nor the moon by night.

    7The LORD shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul.

    8The LORD shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore.


    That is why it is written that the just shall live by faith for Jesus Christ is the Good Shepherd as well as the Saviour so trust him today.
     
  11. Samuel Owen

    Samuel Owen
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    Bought with a price!. :saint:
     
  12. FriendofSpurgeon

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    Thank you. I don't look at these being mutuallly exclusive and couldn't have said it better.
     
  13. Baptist Believer

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    You need to keep in mind that Paul did not write the King James Bible. The KJV is a translation from copies of Paul's letters which were almost certainly written in Greek. Therefore, what the Greek text actually says is more important than what the King James translators wrote down.

    I'm not a KJV basher by any means. The KJV was the finest English translation of its era, but it is certainly not a perfect translation. (For that matter, neither are the modern translations.)

    I did a quick search for something that might be helpful in regard to this passage. I found this blog entry which compares the KJV translation to the NKJV translation of the text. (Please note, both the KJV and NKJV use the same exact Greek text as the source.)

    But salvation is more than just a singular moment. Certainly our entire destiny is changed in one moment, but the "working out" of our salvation (that is, transformation) continues as we grow in Christ.

    Contrary to the lyrics an appalling "Christian" song that was popular a number of years ago, Jesus is not "our ticket to heaven", but is instead the Way, the Truth, and the Life (see John 14:6). We enter into Christ and He enters into us. We have an interactive life with God in Christ as we follow Jesus in discipleship and transformation. We are not in danger of losing salvation (as if salvation were merely a "ticket" or possession), but our new God-given nature is working its way through our lives as leaven works its way through bread and lets it rise. (For those who are offended by my illustration of leaven because some preacher told them that leaven is always an illustration of sin, take a look at Luke 13:21.)

    Grace and peace to you!
     
    #13 Baptist Believer, Sep 1, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2009
  14. Samuel Owen

    Samuel Owen
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    Pardon but! the NKJV is the biggest liar of them all. It deviates exactly where the Alexandrian text deviates, and does not faithfully follow the AV text, except where it suits the purpose. :)

    Don't bother with any negative response, I will not answer it.
     
  15. donnA

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    what Anne said
     
  16. Baptist Believer

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    That's certainly an allegation.

    It's not intended to follow the AV (that is, the KJV translation text). It is a translation of the Textus Receptus (literally, the "received text").

    That's fine.
     
  17. Marcia

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    Maybe people are referring to different meanings of "salvation" here.

    There is justification, which is a one-time event, when one is justified by faith in God's eyes and is forgiven and has eternal life.

    There is sanctification, which is the ongoing process by the Holy Spirit in our lives because we still sin. Sanctification should bring about less desire to sin and less sinning. This is part of salvation, too, but eternal life is already attained.

    There is eventually total salvation when one is with Christ and has his/her redeemed body.

    When I answered the poll, I answered in terms of justification.
     
  18. rdwhite

    rdwhite
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    We may be coming at this from different angles. I am not writing about labouring in unbelief. I am talking about the process of growing in Christ, spiritual growth, and development. The process is accomplished via labouring because of our belief, not some second part of salvation that must be done in order to remain saved.

    Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


    I believe that works are an essential part of the Christian life after regeneration; along with, holy, right, and separated living. I will show you, or demonstrate, my faith by my works. Faith without works is dead. I labour because I am saved, not in order to be saved.

    However, there are some (if not many) who practically demonstrate that they believe the Christian life begins and ends at the moment of salvation. They will have nothing to show at the judgment, they are the foolish who bury their talent in the earth. They go to the grave as spiritual babies, because they have little to no spiritual growth. They are saved, yet so as by fire, because all their works are burned up, and there is nothing left but the foundation, which is salvation in Jesus Christ. They have no place of honour, they have no reward.
     
  19. Enow

    Enow
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    A blogger verses the many King James translators? Okay. Let's look at what he is saying.

    So in other words, the blogger based the translation of the Greek text as "are being saved" towards the wording of those "who are perishing", but he did not get the contrast of what Paul was conveying, but the translators did. As comparing to those presently that are perishing as of this moment, we are saved.

    Now while you may see this as quibbling over wordings and such, let's check the pulse of the church: many are falling away from the faith; many are seeing salvation as an ongoing process to save oneself; some are believing they can lose their salvation, and some will condemn those that have fallen away that they were never saved in the first place. Do we have a cardiac arrest yet? Now what could be the problem..hmmm... a little leaven leavens into a whole lump? How can anyone not say that those changed meanings in the other translations are not the source for all this "lump"?

    Amos 8: 11Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: 12And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.

    Exaggerating?

    Hebrews 2:10For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, King James Bible

    Past tense or He could not call them brethren.

    Hebrews 2:10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, New King James Version

    If they are in the process of being sanctified, how can the following sentence be true? How many such verses like these are being used for salvation by works?

    That is why I rely on the King James Bible for the meat of the word. The Received Text are from documents from Antioch where the disciples that loved His words, kept them as scriptures testified of them doing so.

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1448107#post1448107

    The translators of the Alexandrian documents have a history of disagreeing with the Bible and the Gospel of grace. One stated as holding to Rome's view of salvation and as such, is circumspect when the wording is changed.

    Let's consider the verses in context:

    Philippians 2:9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

    Point 1: The obeying part is towards verses 10 & 11.

    Point 2: The "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" hardly has anyone doing this religiously by his will or effort as verse 13 says why and how. It is ceasing from our works as God did from His to enter into that rest is what we are to strive for so no one moves us away from the hope of the Gospel.

    The just shall live by faith in the Son of God to lead us all the way Home. A child can do that and indeed, unless we become as a child to receive the Kingdom of God, we shall in no wise enter therein... so what can a child do but trust the Lord? Trust is the basis for all relationships as we are to trust Jesus to help us live the christian life as well as trust Him for eternal life.

    Those that exhort believers to do good, should remember, by His grace, to add by entrusting Your Good Shepherd and Your Enabler to help them do it.

    As a word of advise, all such debates regarding those hereseys mentioned above, whomever you are trying to correct, I would suggest using the King James Bible for comparison towards whatever Bible the wayward believer may be using. Although the schism has been created to not rely only on the King James Bible, if the meaning of the words are having the emphasis on Jesus in the King James but the other Bibles has it on the "Spirit" or on the believer, stick with the King James Bible for the true meaning of God's word, because scriptures even says that they testify of Jesus so any changed meaning deviating from Jesus is false.

    John 5:39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

    By not heeding His words and doing them.... great is the fall of that house.:tonofbricks:
     
  20. Enow

    Enow
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    It is not an allegation when they do such a bad job of translating. Changed meanings might as well be lies.

    Since there is such a hardcore rule against posting any comparison of the KJV to the NKJV or any Bible, I do not know how one can prove that unless you are a Baptist and are free to post in the Baptist's Only forums.

    I could post a link, but you know what? You can do the research yourself on the internet. How's that? Just type in NKJV verses KJV and sees what pops up on google.

    I know I did a little bit of it already in this thread, but in reference to why some would believe in a work base salvation: The link I would have posted would have taken you off topic to how the NKJV deviates to the point of lying. As it is, I shall rest with those few examples in regards to the poll.

    And just to keep someone from asking questions from deviating the OP:

    Yes: People can find the Gospel message in the other Bibles:

    No: Believers cannot reprove the works of darkness from the other Bibles:

    I declare that the King James Bible has the meat of the word for believers to discern from good and evil.

    And in getting back to the topic, I should not be frowned upon for saying so because of the state of the churches are today in the latter days.:sleep::sleeping_2:

    If one does not know the true meaning of His words, how then can they heed them and do them to avoid having their houses fall?:tonofbricks:

    It's all about :jesus: or they are glorifying something else in His name.

    When the hope of the believer moves away from Jesus to themselves in dealing with the world around them: then like Peter, they will sink due to the winds of the storm.
     

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