Are we now living in the Messainic Age promised thru the OT Prophets/NT Apostles?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Yeshua1, Jul 29, 2014.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    As a key feature of Covenant theology is to assume that we have been living in that age since jesus ascension, correct?
     
  2. evangelist6589

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    Are we now living in the Messainic Age promised thru the OT Prophets/NT Apost...


    Wrong we are not. There will be a future 1000 year reign of Christ called the millennium. If it can be spiritualized then why is the word one thousand years mentioned multiple times in the same chapter? I am not covenant but Calvinistic in soteriology but dispensational in eschatology.
     
  3. Iconoclast

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    Yeshua1

    If this is a key feature of it...can you quote two or three examples that show this?
     
  4. beameup

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    Yes, lions lying down with lambs... Isn't it wonderful?
     
  5. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Oh, my, yes! Let's all go to the Temple and worship the King!

    Uh ... which way is it again?
     
  6. Iconoclast

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    It s this way Dconn.....

    16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

    17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

    pretty clear:thumbs::wavey:

    22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

    23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect
    ,
     
    #6 Iconoclast, Jul 30, 2014
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  7. OldRegular

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    Grrreat Icon!:thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  8. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    No so much. How often do people come up to you and ask to worship the King within you? Revelation makes clear that the nations of the world will worship the King on His throne during the Millennial Kingdom.
     
  9. Iconoclast

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    Yes I agree. I now believe we are doing that as Jesus is on His throne...In the Heavenly Jerusalem.

    Do you recall when Jesus said this in Jn 4;

    20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
    21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

    22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

    23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

    24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

    Did you ever consider how this verse is fulfilled???

    22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

    23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

    24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

    25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
    26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

    27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

    28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

    29 For our God is a consuming fire.

    Dconn....Jesus is ruling from heaven on the throne.....He rules with a Rod of Iron....not one idle word will fail to be accounted for..when he sends forth His angels at the last day....those who cause offence will be cast out

    41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


    Take all of your OT verses like Isa 2........re-read them as currently happening;

    2 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

    2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

    3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
    4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

    5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the Lord.


    Instead of picturing all nations physically flying to earthly Jerusalem...look at them going in pray into the heaven itself
    Heb 12...the heavenly Zion and Jerusalem in worship by the Spirit's power and communing with God directly.

    Now we see not yet all things put under Him.
    Our citizenship is in heaven....now...we are strangers and pilgrims on the earth..look at all the premill verses this way.
     
  10. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    And that is the day the Millennial Kingdom -- an actual, physical reign of Christ on Earth -- begins. It is not currently in existence. But the reign of Christ in the heart of the believer definitely exists. That isn't the Millennial Kingdom.
     
  11. beameup

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    It seems that poor Peter was confused. Yes, Peter was confused and told Israel that if they repented that Jesus would return and "restore all things".

    Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,
    when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
    And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
    Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things,
    which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

    Acts 3:19-21

    Yes, poor old Peter didn't know that the Kingdom had already arrived and Jesus was "ruling from heaven".

    I have to go now and feed straw to my lion.
     
  12. Yeshua1

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    How can nations come up to worship God in heaven?

    And isn't that a time when his reign/rule and Kingdom shall be enforced over ALL the earth, not a heaven realm?
     
  13. Iconoclast

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    God is in heaven now....correct?

    Do you worship God now? or are you going to wait until a future time?

    If this is a key feature of it...can you quote two or three examples that show this?
     
    #13 Iconoclast, Jul 30, 2014
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  14. Yeshua1

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    Covenat heology holds that jesus has been ruling from heaven since his ascension, correct?

    That it is a spiritual ruling thru his kingdom now, correct?

    That when all the world is put under that reign, then he returns again , correct?

    That really it is more of a Post Mil then an A mil position, correct?
     
  15. Iconoclast

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    DCONN.....I am not trying to be a wise guy at all.

    The 1000yrs is mentioned in REV.20...a few times. Does it say anywhere there that Jesus will reign on the earth ?

    Do you see anywhere in scripture where there is such an indication of this.

    When I shared the system you believe....I would look to Isa 11 and assume it was literal and on the earth as you suggest. I understand your position.

    In fact....if it happened exactly that way...I would be fine with it.

    Ironically I was trying to understand how so many Christians who seemed to know the scripture held these other positions. I was both surprised and challenged by what I found...[I am still learning much on this topic].

    I thought what I held was rock solid ...but I found out otherwise....Isa 11 is quoted by the Apostles as happening now with the gentiles coming in...I could not really deny what is written.

    I do not have it all worked out....but I am still open to scripture on it.

    In fact...Whatever God does is okay.:thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  16. OldRegular

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    Icon,
    I posted this on another thread but believe it is appropriate here.

    The dispensationalists talk continually about the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ during a Jewish millennial and then hammer those who reject that doctrine for not believing God's promises to Israel and Abraham? For example:

    Genesis 13:15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

    Joshua 14:9 And Moses sware on that day, saying, Surely the land whereon thy feet have trodden shall be thine inheritance, and thy children’s for ever, because thou hast wholly followed the LORD my God.

    2 Chronicles 20:7 Art not thou our God, who didst drive out the inhabitants of this land before thy people Israel, and gavest it to the seed of Abraham thy friend for ever?

    Ezekiel 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children’s children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.


    It appears then that dispensationalists take it upon them selves to tweak God's promises a little. Really, compared to for ever, or eternity, is 1000 years any more than zero years? I believe compared to infinity 1000 and zero are the same. Perhaps some good mathematician on board can provide the answer!
     
  17. Iconoclast

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    Yeshua1
    I asked you to show where you have gotten this idea. You cannot quote anyone who says this. That tells me that you do not know. If you do not know how can you claim you have truth with the position you are claiming to hold?

    There are Covenant theologians that have held to all of the positions. The dispensational position falls first because of the false view of Israel being apart from the NT church.
    I would suggest this to you...it is not some mystical, ethereal, fuzzy, hard to describe idea, floating around in space somewhere.

    21 The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

    Do not read the nonsense that Jesus is not reigning right now,as He is Lord of all.

    Wrong....the world is put under Him right now.The church is to obey MT 28 and spread the Kingdom thru the preaching and teaching the nations, making disciples.....it is not just about salvation....it is about salvation from sin, and Kingdom growth...here and now, heading into a future where the gospel will fully accomplish all God has ordained.

    it is a bit of a caricature of the postmill position, but let me use it to come at you once again.....for you to ask that question as you have shows you have not seriously read or studied these other positions.

    it is not a race, take time to read some of these other men...look up the scriptures they offer.
    Until you can show their position accurately, then show from scripture why you do not believe it....can you really discuss it at all???

    you cannot just go on second hand information.....

    That would be like me going to France having learned how to say, savvah, bon jour, je appelle Tony........then the French person starts speaking fluently to me in French...I would have no idea only learning a handful of phrases.

    You seem like you do that on BB when you cannot answer from scripture.
     
  18. OldRegular

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    The Bible teaches that Sovereign God reigns. Period!
     
  19. Iconoclast

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    :thumbsup::thumbs: I was taught at first that was the only biblical position.
    Until a person wants to seek out every possible teaching of the main views they will just parrot the same ideas over and over. Most Dispys just hold that.
     
  20. OldRegular

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    I have said that dispensational is a schooled doctrine. it does not flow naturally from Scripture but must be taught. I presented the following on another thread for Yeshua1. Not that it will do any good!

     
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