Are we really to Judge a person's salvation?

Then you are found a hypocrate. If you can determine that a satan worshipper is not saved, how then can you not determine this with all, including those who claim to know Christ? Do you have the Holy Spirit of God dwelling in you? If you do, you would be able to know, as the scriptures have declared. We are given to know who is of God and who is not, in the present now. What God has for them in the future, we cannot necessarily know. But we can know their present state NOW.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Apparently, I have the answer I am looking for. If I can't judge another person's salvation than I don't have the Holy Spirit in me, hence I am not saved.

 

As I live and breathe, I see the more things change, the more they stay the same; you fellars kill me. I see Michelle is still standing on the firing line. Way to go, sis!

Bushy-boy said at the beginning of his first term that 'now' is not a good time to oveturn Roe v. Wade...well, just when is a good time, huh? When is a good time to stop the killing of thousands of innocent babies day after day???

Billy Graham does not preach the WHOLE truth. If he is really interested in lost souls, he should obey the scriptures. Much that goes on in the name of love today is nothing more than sentimental hogslop.

 

Hiya Sister Granny!


It is so good to see you back again! I have missed reading your posts and missed you so much, and I know you have missed all of us also.


You hit the nail right on the head with your post. Thank you for sharing that information, and WELCOME BACK!!!


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Nobody disagrees with you about Bush and Graham not being perfect.

How does ANYONE other than God have the right to say "That man is not saved?" They both claim to be Christians, both give testimony to a salvation experience. What makes their sins any more heinous than yours or mine?

 

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Sound familiar? Before I think myself so righteous as to be able to judge another's salvation, I first have to examine my own heart and life. Only if I find that there is nothing between God and myself, no sin, no shortcoming, no imperfection, could I ever even consider doing so.

Do I wonder about the salvation of some whose walk does not match their talk? Yes, I do. But I cannot make myself the judge of it.

I am not God...nor is anyone else on this Board.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

I agree. I can look at a man or woman and say, "Their life is not in accord with the Word of God, what they are doing is sin."

Does does NOT mean I have any right to judge their eternal fate.

 

--------------------------------------------------
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Sound familiar? Before I think myself so righteous as to be able to judge another's salvation, I first have to examine my own heart and life. Only if I find that there is nothing between God and myself, no sin, no shortcoming, no imperfection, could I ever even consider doing so.

--------------------------------------------------


I am so glad you brought this up. Shall we take a look at the context?


John 8


3. And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4. They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6. This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11. She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
12. Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.


Did Jesus condemn them for recognizing her sin? No. He condemned them because they were going to pronounce a judgement of death upon her for that sin, while they still had sin. Who is the judge? God is the judge, and Jesus came to fulfill the law and to forigive sins. Notice Jesus said to go and sin no more, and then continued saying that those who follow him are not in darkness, but shall have the light of life. THis does not say we are not to know whether one is saved or not, and in fact shows us that we are able to tell who is and who is not. If they follow the Lord, and are definately in the light, they will not follow darkness or evil, nor would they condone it. WE can know who is saved. WE cannot place judgement, such as a penalty for those sins, as God is the judge. WE can know it however, as the scriptures plainly reveal. For an example, many christians try to make decisions about the death penalty. This in fact, is what Jesus was rebuking them of. They showed no mercy for this woman. They did not try to instruct her to righteousness, but were quick to judge her and put her to death. It is not for the saved person to be making these judgements upon sin, such as the penalties in this life or the next. This is God's. Nowhere in this passage however, are we told we cannot tell who is born again of God or not. WE are told we can know, and commanded to know. You cannot disregard all other scriptures to focus only upon this one and out of context to justify your opinion.


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

So tell me Michelle, you have read my record, am I saved or not??

 

--------------------------------------------------
And as for the second aspect, Granny, you point out obvious actions of President Bush that do not agree with your thinking. Where does this mean he is not saved? Where does this negate the clear salvation testimony he has given?

--------------------------------------------------


Well Dr. Bob, if you did what we are commanded to do, and applied scriptural truths to the actions, words and life of yourself and others, then you would be able to determine exactly what the Lord commanded us to be able to determine. If you cannot do this, how can you instruct others to God's righteousness and holiness and salvation and help keep them from deception? You apply scriptural truth, only to certain things and people, but then neglect to do it with all, and then falsely accuse and slander those who do and have obeyed the Lord.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Okay, I have said enouph on this. I have said all that can be said, and I promised another that I would end this discussion now. So, please, do not think I am avoiding your questions, but rather it all has been discussed already, and I am now ending my discussion on it.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Michelle,
I agree with you on many points, but you have overstated your case and have gone too far. Only God knows the heart. That is why it is put plainly:
"The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who can know it?

IMO, if I were the one to judge Lot, I would have said he was one of the most wicked men to have lived, offering up his virgin daughters to be raped by homosexuals--how wicked an act could a man think of! And yet the Bible refers to Lot as a just and righteous man. We don't know the heart. But God does.

God also says: "The Lord knows them that are His," not Michelle, not DHK, not Dr. Bob, not C4K, not any one of us. The Lord knows them that are His. We need to understand that point very clearly.

Having said that there does come a point where Christ has made us "fruit inspectors." Speaking of false prophets, he said: "Ye shall know them by their fruits." (Mat.7:20). He warned against false teaching. I agree that Billy Graham has taught false teaching in the past. I agree that his methods have been wrong.
It is wrong, after explaining the way of salvation to send a Catholic back to a Catholic Church--absolutely wrong.
When Billy Graham appeared on TV with a Catholic Bishop, he put his arm around the Bishop and said "This man believes every thing that I do." What does that speak of Graham's doctrine? Is he an inclusivist, a universalist, or a what?? He is certainly an all out ecumenalist.
I believe that Billy Graham had done more harm to the cause of Biblical Christianity than any person alive. He "innoculates" people with the gospel, and then sends them back to their own modernistic churches where they will never hear it again. Most people never get saved the first time they hear the gospel. Making a profession of faith is not the same as possessing Christ.

I have an interesting book entitled: "Billy Graham: the Jehoshaphat of our Generation." In it the author seeks to show all the compromise that Billy Graham has made with unbelievers only to get his message across. His message over the years has become more watered down. It is no longer a message of repentance but one of commitment. It is possible that Michelle is right, that he is not saved--very possible. But I am not to say. I don't know the heart. Only two people know that: Billy Graham and the Lord.
Jehoshaphat is known in history as the King of Judah who compromised with the most wicked king that ever lived--king Ahab. He was judged for such an action. God hates compromise. "Come out from among them saith the Lord, and I will receive you." The Christian is to separate, not infiltrate, for God is holy and God hates sin.
DHK

 

Gee, I hope I don't bump into anyone when I am having a bad day, or I would be accused of being unsaved as well!

A Christian who is walking in/after the Spirit will exhibit the fruit of the Spirit. But a Christian who is not wlking with the Spirit won't. Does this make the person in question unsaved, or just living in the flesh?

The absolute gall that it takes to stadn and declare that "I am holy enough to judge whether or not you are saved" is almost unbelievable. I have pretty good discernment about a lot of things, but I know better than to try to take God's place in this situation.

I have heard of enough churches that do this type of thing already. Someone shows up in something other than a suit or (God forbid) a woman in pants, and they are condemned as hell-bound and shown the door. A man with his hair touching his ear? Spawn of satan! A woman with a child but no husband? Harlot, fully deserving the hell she is destined for! You have rock and roll playing on your car radio? You'll burn beside Ozzy for sure!

Enough of the legalism. Enough of the "I am so holy and righteous" baloney. Let's get real.

Anyone here able to discern the thoughts and intent of their own heart perfectly? Then how can any of us even entertain the notion that we can ascertain the condition of salvation in another's?

In Christ,
Trotter

 

And leaving the scene of the crime, as well.