Are we spirit beings in Heaven before conception?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Rachel, Oct 7, 2005.

  1. Rachel

    Rachel
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    I'm confused here. I was reading someone's posts on another board, and this woman was saying we are spirit children or beings in heaven before we are conceived.
    I thought all that happened at conception? That we weren't anything until then? A few of us asked for verses that say that. But the verses she gave don't seem to prove it. I believe she's a mormon so mabye that makes a difference.

    This is what she said...
    I will give a few references concerning our living as spirit children before coming to earth.

    Jeremiah 1:5 - Before I formed thee in the belly I KNEW thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

    Romans 8:16 - The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God.

    Ecclesiastes 12:7 - Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was; and the spirit shall RETURN unto God who gave it.

    Thank you!
    Rachel
     
  2. DeeJay

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    She is LDS. What she is trying to get at is her doctrin that our spirits are literal procreations from a physical act between a mother god and a father god. If she knows what she beleves she will tell you that we were all born from our heavenly mother as spirits then given bodies on earth. Since we are the same kind of being as god, literal children of, then we can become gods. She will also tell you, in direct contradiction to the bible, that all people on earth are children of god.

    Of course only a few moments spent in Gods word disproves all of this. I thank God for showing me the error of this church before my heart became so hard that I would not listen to the truth. I am also gratefull for the witness that God sent to tell me the truth.
     
  3. Marcia

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    DeeJay, we are glad you were delivered from the false teachings of the LDS church! [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Rachel, DeeJay is right. Mormons use those verses to try to prove that we were spirit children in heaven before birth, but the Bible teaches no such thing. We did not exist before we were born though God knew us because he is not in time and so has always known us.
     
  4. Marcia

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    Eccl. 12.7 is not saying we were with God before birth. What it could be referring to is that we return to God who gave us the breath of life (Gen 2.7).
     
  5. jshurley04

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    Rachel,

    Your thinkin' is not stinkin'. We are all created at conception (creation used loosely) because we are products of the line of Adam. If we come from these God beings, then that makes God the author of sin. Our sin nature, soul, spirit, and body are all passed down from our parents at conception. Guard your faith and stay in the Word.
     
  6. Rachel

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    Thank you! I'm trying to find certain verses that say all that...do you know of any? To try to make it clear to her.
     
  7. Rachel

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    That's a great point too jshurlery04, thanks!
     
  8. DeeJay

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    Thank you Marcia, because God sent somebody to tell me the truth, my wife and brother have left the LDS church also. We are now working on my wifes family.

    Rachel
    She has to hang on to this prelife doctrin to make the whole thing work.

    If it was me I would lead the conversation to
    "are all people children of God" then use.

    But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
    John 1:12


    That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
    Romans 9:8

    In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother
    1 John 3:10


    All people are clearly not children of God, only belevers are His children. This rules out her doctrin that we are a literal procreation by a sexual act of god. Then the whole house of cards has to come down. I pray she will listen.
     
  9. DeeJay

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    Jshurly

    As unbelevable as it is, this is very close to what they teach. They teach that God wanted Adam and Eve to sin and eat of the fruit. They will say that the only way to know good is to know evil and we had to learn about sin to become Gods. They beleve that God set us up to sin and to fall and wanted us to do it because this world is a step of progression we needed to take.
     
  10. tinytim

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    Interesting, so it's like God is this mother bird that kicks it's babies out of the nest to teach them to fly, and if they hit the ground, so what.
    Nah, not like that.
     
  11. DeeJay

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    Tiny

    That is exactly what they beleve. The missionaries told me it is like when you let your kids mess up because you know they will learn a lesson from it. They often describe this world as a test in an eternal classroom. We lived as spirits in the prelife learning and progressing. When we were ready we are put here for a test, a practical exam. If we pass this test we jump to the next class for more learning and more progressing. If not we are held back.

    LDS proof is that they say that Adam and Eve could not have known each other without eating the fruit. But God commanded them to be fruitfull and multiply. Therefore they had to eat the fruit. God set them up. The only problem is you have to take the first premis that "Adam and Eve could not have known each other without eating the fruit" to be fact, for the rest to be true. If you call them on this they just "know it is true." Revelation and all that.
     
  12. DeeJay

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    One more thing, they beleve the only differance between us and God is he is in a higher grade then us. Jesus is also in a higher grade but not as high as the Father and Jesus' grandparents gods are even more advanced and on and on because it is an eternal god family tree.

    Of course you will never ever here the LDS missionaries volunteer this information. They will try not to discuss it if they can. They will if you nail them down and insist the conversation go there.
     
  13. Brother Ian

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    The only way to correct this false teaching is to know the truth of the Bible. Most of what the Mormans teach is heresy.
     
  14. DeeJay

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    The frustrating thing about talking to them is when you show them where they are wrong, useing the bible. They revert to their scriptures that they consider more accurate and more inspired then the bible. They feel free to reinterpret and tell you what that verse in the bible "realy means". It is frustrating. I have alot of family and good friends lost in this religion, I pray someday they will be willing to listen to the truth.
     
  15. Ben W

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    Without trying to appear as the devils advocate here, how should we deal with Genesis 2:1?

    "Thus the heavens and the earth and all the host of them were finished".

    Are people not part of the "host"? Noting that it says that all the host were finished, indicating that there is no more further creation.
     
  16. Marcia

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    Gen 2.1 is looking back at a finished creation from the 7th day:
     
  17. Ben W

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    Yet are we not a part of that Creation? Does God perpetually Create?
     
  18. untangled

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    LDS are masters at Biblical "Twister". If there's a verse they can twist it. [​IMG]
     
  19. Marcia

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    He's not creating people like he created Adam. I think the process of conception and birth is a continuation of the process God instituted by the way he made Adam and Eve. He told them to be fruitful and multiply. I think babies are born with a spirit/soul; God does not breath the breath of life into each baby born.

    So although processes God instituted continue birth (animals are born; flowers grow from seeds), I do not call this perpetual creation by God. After all, Gen. says that God rested on the 7th day. Creation was over as far as God's direct hand in creating.
     
  20. James_Newman

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    Jeremiah 1:5
    5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

    Would this not indicate that God does indeed still create us? We are not special creation in the sense that there were no people before us, but still He forms us individualy.
     

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