Are You a Calvinist or a Non-Cal?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by InTheLight, Feb 27, 2012.

?

Are you a Calvinist or a Non-Cal?

  1. I am a Calvinist

    36.5%
  2. I am not a Calvinist

    63.5%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. InTheLight

    InTheLight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    16,186
    Likes Received:
    611
    Pretty simple question. Do you identify yourself as a Calvinist or a non-Calvinist?

    No hedging or defining it. No "I'm a four-pointer" or "I prefer to be called Reformed".

    Yes or No.
     
    #1 InTheLight, Feb 27, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2012
  2. mandym

    mandym
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am a Christian. I don't want to be considered anything in relation to calvinism. Calvinism is not the standard by which to measure one's faith.
     
  3. InTheLight

    InTheLight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    16,186
    Likes Received:
    611
    So that's a No?
     
  4. JonC

    JonC
    Expand Collapse
    Lifelong Disciple
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    6,914
    Likes Received:
    365
    That’s the hard part with this topic. By choosing “non-cal” you have measured you faith in relation to Calvinism (as you have pointed out).

    Calvinism is a little undefined these days. For example, I can accept “perseverance of the saints,” of course my view is more of “OSAS,” so some would point out the difference while others take that to be perseverance. I could accept “limited atonement,” but for me it is actually “limited redemption.” Many who hold to limited atonement actually understand it as limited redemption while others see a difference.

    Many hold Calvinism to be restricted to soteriology while others follow the system to a fuller extent. I disagree in the traditional Calvinistic eschatological view. But there are pre-trib Calvinists.

    Many Calvinists reject free will in that sinners accept Christ, while others (such as Spurgeon) see themselves as Calvinists with “additions,” (more of a compatiblist view).

    “Non-cal” could mean one who has a Reformed soteriology, but holds a pre-tribulation view.

    So, undefined Calvinism is just as meaningless as “non-cal.” You almost have to go issue by issue.
     
  5. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yep, I'm one of those DoGs.

    Some might call me a Junkyard DoG.
     
  6. David Lamb

    David Lamb
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,982
    Likes Received:
    0
    Surely for this poll to make any sense, we need to know how you, InTheLight, would define "Calvinist". In my time on the BB, I have seen some people say that Calvinism insists you can be saved without believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, some that Calvinists have no concern for evangelism, even one who thought that Calvinists insist on reciting the Lord's Prayer and the Apostles' Creed at least once every service, and doing that, and partaking in the Lord's Supper, are the basis for their assurance!

    I don't believe any of those things, yet if I ticked "I am a Calvinist", at least some people may think I did!
     
  7. jonathan.borland

    jonathan.borland
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    0
    Okay, so define Calvinist by the generally agreed upon tulip test:

    Total depravity
    Unconditional election
    Limited atonement
    Irresistible grace
    Perseverance of saints

    If you don't hold to all these click non-Calvinist.
     
  8. David Lamb

    David Lamb
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,982
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sorry, Jonathan, your "tulip test" would just be to perpetuate a commonly held but mistaken idea of what Calvinism is.

    The "Five Points of Calvinism", which gave rise (in English) to the acronym "TULIP", were a response to five Articles of Remonstrance drawn up by the disciples of Jacob Arminius. Suppose (I stress that word! ) Arminius or his followers had six points:
    1. God did not create. The universe came into being by chance
    2. Human reason, not God's revelation, is the way to know the truth.
    3. There are many gods
    4. Christ is not God
    5. Ungodliness is right
    6. There is no need to confess our sins to God.
    Then Calvinism might have ended up with a CROCUS instead of a TULIP:
    1. Creation of the universe by God
    2. Revelation from God is necessary for us to know Him
    3. One God, not many.
    4. Christ is God
    5. Ungodliness is wrong
    6. Confession of sins to God is essential
    OK, I know that's very contrived, and I am sure others could think of a far better illustration. But my point is that Calvinism is not defined by TULIP; that just represents the five matters under debate with the followers of Arminius.
     
  9. jonathan.borland

    jonathan.borland
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think that generally, though, the popular perception of Calvinism revolves around the TULIP to the extent that saying one is a Calvinist means that one thinks he is what the general perception of that term conveys.
     
  10. jonathan.borland

    jonathan.borland
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    0
    Then when citing the survey, one may say that such and such percent of people who volunteered to take the survey consider themselves Calvinists. Nothing more, nothing less.
     
  11. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    18,912
    Likes Received:
    94
    I would suggest you define Calvinism better than this if you want full participation in your survey. BTW, whats your definition of Non Calvinists? Would Roman Catholics & Mormons & Jehovah's Witnesses be Non Calvinists? Also are the hate mongers who post tirades that we have been seeing on this board lately --- are they considered Non Calvinists?
     
    #11 Earth Wind and Fire, Feb 28, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 28, 2012
  12. Greektim

    Greektim
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,143
    Likes Received:
    118
    I think some people are so wary of being labeled, that they need everything minutely defined. I'm a calvie... you can mix me up with others as well. I don't mind so long as you hear me before you cast judgment on my position.

    And for the non-cals (a nice way of putting it if you ask me), you know who you are. People on the BB are typically shades different from one another in the non-calvinistic persuasion. So let's not be naive and think that JWs and Mormons are a part of this poll.

    It is definitely an election year... all the question dodging, fudging, and hedging is leaking down to the constituents :D
     
  13. jonathan.borland

    jonathan.borland
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, because this is a BAPTIST only forum!

    Calling brothers and sisters hate mongers isn't very loving, is it?
     
  14. seekingthetruth

    seekingthetruth
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's funny to see you calling someone else a hate monger.

    FYI, I never had any ill feelings towards Calvinists until I came to the BB. Now I despise Calvinism, and you are one of the main ones that gave that attitude.

    After being on the BB, a Calvinist is the last thing I would ever want to be

    John
     
  15. mandym

    mandym
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    Usually coming from the cal side.
     
  16. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    18,912
    Likes Received:
    94
    Perhaps its my nature, because I dont like being button holed & Im suspicious of anyone who tries.....primarily because there attempting to draw up sides. As a Calvie Tim, do you follow along the lines of infant baptizers? Do you feel that the true Calvie is a severe unbending legalistic minded individual? Do you hold the position that you will not fellowship with Non Calvinists, do you believe in the doctrine of reprobation, do you feel the need to carry the banner of Calvin?

    Id prefer to be known as a believer in Christ that honestly attempts to know God through the Loving & Merciful nature of my Lord & Savior. I do not want to be ostracized by people who seemingly have turrets syndrome & continuously cast insults at my belief system....when they dont even understand it. Therefore I refuse to participate. Nothing in this world is black & white.:tongue3:
     
  17. seekingthetruth

    seekingthetruth
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think a better way to phrase the question this:

    Do you consider yourself a Calvinist? Yes or No

    That way the interpretation of Calvinism is left up to individual poster

    John
     
  18. Greektim

    Greektim
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,143
    Likes Received:
    118
    Wouldn't that be a distinction w/out a difference? I mean there is not that much difference between "are you a calvinist" vs. "do you consider yourself a calvinist"...

    Not to pick at you (although I believe a damnable doctrine according to you), just thought I would point out that there is little difference in what you are offering.

    As far as I'm concerned, calvinist should not be shy about it either. It is not a bad word. In our opinion, it is extremely biblical. So why shy away from the various connotations that the label might have? That is not the issue.
     
  19. seekingthetruth

    seekingthetruth
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Then why are the Calvinists looking for a clarification as to what the OP means? If you consider yourself a Calvinist then it doesnt matter what others think a Calvinist is.

    John
     
  20. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,121
    Likes Received:
    0
    The poll is horrendously deficient.


    As David Lamb states, it leaves loopholes.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...