Are you Abiding in Christ? does it mean to "just believe"?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Claudia_T, Jun 17, 2005.

  1. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
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    I thought that some might want to think about this for a little bit... what it actually means to ABIDE IN CHRIST and what it has to do with our salvation. Believe me, I can talk much on the subject of faith and relying on the merits of Jesus Christ alone, but because of the fact that so many Christians today are of the opinion that works have nothing to do with their salvation, thus, I talk a lot about works and keeping the commandments because I believe it is sorely needed.

    Brothers and Sisters, it is TRUE that we MUST believe, we MUST have faith! HOWEVER... the Bible teaches that we will PROVE that we have genuine belief, genuine faith... BY OUR WORKS!

    Jms:2:14: What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

    Jms:2:17: Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

    Jms:2:18: Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

    Jms:2:20: But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

    Now NOTICE who is it that will come forth from the graves to everlasting life... is it they who profess to "Believe" in Jesus? No, read carefully...

    John 5: 24: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25: Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26: For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27: And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28: Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29: And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    1Jn:2:28: And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

    How do we show that we "abide" in Him? Note that the verses below explain how to tell whether or not you are "abiding" in Jesus and He in you:

    1Jn:3:6: Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

    "If a man love Me," Christ said, "he will keep My words; and My Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." John 14:23.

    To "abide" in Christ, you must "die to self" and no longer walk in the flesh... Jn:12:24: Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. (that would be the fruits of the Spirit)

    1Jn:3:14: We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

    1Jn:2:10: He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

    1Jn:3:24: And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

    1Jn:2:6: He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

    You do not see any "just believe" there do you? What we hear about abiding in Christ is... he who sinneth not, he who keeps My words, he who dies to self, he who loves the brethren, he who keeps the commandments, he who walks as Jesus walked... it is THEY who are abiding in Christ! Remember, John clearly said that ONLY if you abide in Him, will you have confidence at Jesus' second coming! The wicked shall be consumed with the glory of His brightness. 1Jn:2:28: And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
    2Thes:2:8: "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming." Sin and all those who cling to sin will be consumed!

    The wicked, they who choose to cling to their sins and not let them go, will be heading for the hills and begging the mountains to fall on them to shield them from Christ! They will NOT have confidence. And why? ...obviously because they were NOT abiding in Him!

    Luke 23:27-30: "And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him. But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children. For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck. Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us."

    Isaiah 2:16-21: "And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day. And the idols he shall utterly abolish. And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats; To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth."

    You are either going to get rid of your sins and your idols NOW or else you will do it LATER, when it is too late! And if you expect to have confidence before God in that day, you MUST abide in Jesus... ALONE!

    Let me put this in very simple terms. You MUST cling to Jesus alone for merit, for salvation. You MUST not trust to your own works for salvation. Anything you offer to God in the way of good works to gain salvation will be rejected as "filthy rags". Period! HOWEVER, you CANNOT cling to Jesus with one hand and cling to sin with the other! Drop it! Cling to Jesus with BOTH HANDS! Let His Holy Spirit dwell in you, abide in you and you abide in Him... CLING TO HIM... and the fruits of the Spirit (love, etc) will appear... NOT SIN!

    1Jn:3:7: Little children, let no man deceive you: he that DOETH righteousness IS righteous, even as he is righteous.

    1Jn:3:18: My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

    Brothers and Sisters, LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU! Do not allow anybody to convince you that works have nothing to do with your salvation. This is a terrible deception, and this "works do not matter" lie comes from Satan himself.

    I John 3:14,15: We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

    Can we earn salvation? "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:8-10.

    What experience must we have to receive this free gift? "Jesus answered and said to him, ‘Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.’" John 3:3. And we already have seen that to be "born again" we must love God and love our neighbor, which is a summary of the ten commandments (Romans 13:8-10).

    I John 4:
    6: Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
    7: Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
    8: He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

    In conclusion, many Christians want to hear the smooth words of a false prophet. It has ALWAYS been that way! But a true prophet will tell you THE TRUTH. True prophets will make you uncomfortable in your sins, they will not present to you a smooth message, lulling you into that sense of false security. True prophets will always point you to Jesus AND to the Law of God. On the other hand, false prophets who speak smooth words to the people will always cause the people to rest easy in their sins, and make them think sin to be a light matter:

    Jeremiah 6:13-16 For from the least of them even unto the greatest of them every one is given to covetousness; and from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely. They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace. Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD. Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein." (the "old paths" refer to the ten commandments)


    ------------------

    Claudia Thompson

    http://www.christiangraphics.org
    http://www.countrymanordesigns.com
    http://www.religiouscounterfeits.org

    [ June 17, 2005, 11:19 PM: Message edited by: Claudia_T ]
     
  2. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    Abiding in christ is kind of like marriage. If you just go on your merry way after you are wed, never live with your new spouse, never share anything with each other, then it doesn't mean much. It's just in name only!!

    When you accept Jesus, if you really love Him, you will want to learn about Him every day, and tell all you meet about your new love. You'll talk about Him all the time.

    That's why Jesus compared marriage with our relationship with Him.

    Peace,

    Tam
     
  3. mman

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    For one to abide in Christ, he must first get INTO Christ.

    According to the scriptures, the only way to get INTO Christ is through baptism (Gal 3:26-27, Rom 6:3-4).

    Once "in Christ" we must be strive to "walk in the light". Will we do that sinlessly? No, I John 1:7 says his blood cleanseth (keeps on cleaning is the meaning) us from all sin. What, we will sin when we are in the light? Yes. If we say we don't then we deceive ourselves and make God a liar. (I John 1:8-10). He will forgive us and cleanse us if we confess our sins (I John 1:9).

    For the Christian or those in Christ, what really counts? Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

    I like to think this verse represents a stool with 3 legs, faith-works-love. What happens if we try and remove one of the legs?

    Faith without works - Dead/usless/vain - James 2:14, 17, 20, 22, 24, 26

    Ok, what about faith without love? It makes me a nothing - I Cor 13:2.

    What about love without works? I don't have the love of God in me. - I John 3:17-18

    What about works without love? Profits me nothing. I Cor 13:3.

    Do any of the works merit salvation? Of course not. We could never earn our way to heaven.
     
  4. Eric B

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    Belief is to be manifest in works (James 2:18), but people are taking this further to justify one-upmanship, by picking out particular works and saying "I do this, and you don't; so I'm completely obedient; and you're {not saved; or saved, but "clinging on to your sin", and you'll run for the hills} (depending on which group--you all who agree on "works" are not even in agreement on which ones!)
    Nobody keeps the Law perfectly, ever, so it must be by grace through faith that we are saved, and no one can hold up some work and say "see; I keep this, so I am saved". As I told mm on the water thread, no one is justifying "belief" like the Jews in John or Simon in Acts that was shallow and exposed as false. But that's what our responses to sabbatarianism, baptismal regeneration as well as Catholicism* are painted as.
    *(Say, makes you wonder WHO really is "following Rome", then!).
    There are scriptures which show that these particular practices are not necessary for salvation. Just like most of you do not keep annual sabbaths, circumcision, sacrifices, etc. that were "works" that were once "commanded". So the real debate is not even "belief without works", since you all believe that NT "faith" frees us from at least some aspect of "the works of the Law"!
     
  5. billwald

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    It aint enough to just believe, you gots to really believe. In fact, you gots to really, really, really . . . believe. As one preacher put it, "It ain't enought to beieve IN Jesus, you gots to believe ON Jesus."

    Bottom line, doesn't matter how many times you invited Jesus into your heart or got baptized, if you end up in Hell it is your fault.
     
  6. JGrubbs

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    The branch who abides in the Vine does not have to know how it abides. So long as it abides, it shares in the Life of the Vine. It does not have to ask how it works, and it does not have to be concerned with producing the fruit. It does nothing but abide, and the Life of the Vine keeps it. The Vine and the Branches is a reality; it is not a parable. Jesus did not say, "The Kingdom of God is like the Vine and the Branches." That would have been a parable. Instead, Jesus says, "I am the Vine, and you are the Branches." This is no simile or metaphor, it is reality.

    "I am the Vine, and you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, will produce much fruit: for apart from Me you can do nothing (John 15:5)."

    It is amazing the number of Christians who believe it is up to them to produce fruit. This teaching is, to them, like trying to force a square peg through a round hole. They become obsessed with making something happen, thinking it is all up to their effort, their willpower, their determination, to grow up into Christ. To suggest that they cease from their labor is to make light of all their hard work up until now, and this offends them! They begin in the Spirit, but look to the flesh (self-effort) to complete the work. That is not the Christ-Life! The fruit will come of its own accord, provided we abide in Him.

    But look at the last part of the verse: "Apart from Me you can do nothing." It is similar to John 5:15, which says, "The Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do: for whatever the Father does, the Son does." And John 14:10: "I speak nothing of Myself. It is the Father that dwells in Me, and He does the works." As the Son can do nothing apart from the Father Who dwells within Him, so we can do nothing apart from the Son who dwells within us. The question is not whether or not we will work out our salvation, but under whose power will we work it out? Is it our willpower, or is it Christ? Is it our effort, or is it the Law of Life?

    Are we making a case for idle passivity? By no means. We are not suggesting that Christians cease all effort, only that Christians cease all SELF-effort. The Law of Life is more powerful and active than anything generated or maintained by self-effort. With self-effort I am always at the mercy of how I feel. If I feel spiritual then I can pray for hours at a time. But if I do not feel spiritual then I cannot even pray five minutes. This is why so many believers live their lives like a roller-coaster. They do not live according to principle, according to the Law of Life. Thinking it is up to them to become Christlike, they turn an easy yoke and a light burden into a difficult yoke and a heavy burden - difficult and heavy for themselves, and for those who must live and work around them.

    The one who rests in Christ will produce more fruit than the one who strives with self-effort. This is demonstrated in Scripture and in the real-life experience of countless saints. Paul proclaimed, "I labor, striving according to His working which works in me mightily." There is no question that Paul worked, labored, and toiled. But the difference with Paul is he knew that he was laboring according to Christ working in him. Was Paul lazy? By contrast, he was more fruitful than ever. The end result is his statement, "I labored more abundantly than them all," quickly qualified with, "yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me (I Corinthians 15:10)." The "I can do all things" must always be followed with "through Christ who strengthens me." If we trust in the Life we will be anything but passive.

    Source: Chip Brogden
     
  7. prophecynut

    prophecynut
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    [​IMG] [​IMG] for tamborine lady.

    Failure to abide in God is exactly what Israel failed to do. As the result of her disobedience, God has temporary divorced her.

    Thanks to God for his grace that indwells the Church, this will never happen to us. I'm sure Gentiles would have become like Israel if it wasn't for the Holy Spirit that lives in us.


    [​IMG] [​IMG] for mman, EricB and JGrubbs.


    Works are a confirmation of our faith and "PROVE" that our faith in Christ is genuine. Amen.

    A little nit-picking on Claudia's post:

    Getting rid of our sins is impossible while here on earth; we strive to diminish those sins. Christians may get rid of their idols, but many still cling to them.


    That divinely inspired KJB, don't you just love it? "Should walk" is an obligation or responsibility of the believer to walk in the ways
    of our Lord. Do you realize Israel was obligated to walk in the ways of God and failed miserably over and over?

    Other versions are more accurate, such as the NIV: "For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Just as our salvation was decided in advance so are our works. God has already guaranteed salvation and works before the foundation of the earth according to His will. Relax and live under God's grace and good works will follow.
     
  8. av1611jim

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    Eph 2:10
    For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (KJV)

    I don't know WHAT 'KJB" ya'll are talking about but the Authorized version is above.

    God has ordained that we should walk in good works.


    An obligation is precisely accurate here.

    "IF ye love Me" Christ says, we WILL do good to others. We WILL keep His commandments. IF!!!


    Relax? That kind of thinking is baloney!

    "FIGHT the good fight of faith."
    "RUN" the race before us."
    "I BUFFET my body and keep it under subjection."
    "ENDURE" unto the end"

    These are not "relaxing" concepts.

    While I completely disagree with SDA theology, I do believe in the believer's OBLIGATION to do good works. FYI; we call this obedience.

    Mt 24:42
    Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
    Mt 24:43
    But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
    Mt 24:44
    Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
    Mt 24:45
    Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
    Mt 24:46
    Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
    Mt 24:47
    Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
    Mt 24:48
    But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
    Mt 24:49
    And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
    Mt 24:50
    The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
    Mt 24:51
    And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    This is a WARNING to His OWN disciples.

    Heed the warning.

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  9. prophecynut

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    Jim, study JGrubbs' post.

    The context of Mt. 24 pertains to Jews during the Tribulation and not the Church raptured prior to it.
     
  10. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    Jim [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Peace,

    Tam
     
  11. prophecynut

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    I recommend reading the entire "Chip Brogden" link provided by JGrubbs. Very well done.
     
  12. JGrubbs

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    I actually believe in the Pre-Wrath rapture of the church, so I believe that Jesus was talking to his disciples as future church fathers, not as unsaved Israel. But that is for a different thread!!

    Click here for more about Matthew 24.

    Chip Brogden has lots of great articles and audio on his site, he also has a great daily devotion email that I subscribe to. His ministry has been a great blessing to my wife and I over the last year.
     
  13. prophecynut

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    Hey Grubbs, I've studied prophecy for 20 years and will not change from a mid week pre trib rapture, a pre-wrath rapture is not in the cards. One thing for sure when the "mark" comes and no one can buy or sell food without it there's no way I'm digging for grubs to stay alive. Ya got that?
     
  14. JGrubbs

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    You will have to email what you mean by "mid week", send it in email, so we don't hijack this thread. ;)
     
  15. Eric B

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    I'll have to get back to the Brogden article, but from what I saw, it seems to be on the ball. The line of thinking above is but FDM: first-day Mosaicism. Much of modern Christian teaching, from the Old-line KJV separatists, to the new-evangelicals, and certain charismatics on "christian victory" is based on the idea that spirituality is determined by discomfort. While we are sinners, and our desiires do often conflict with God, we cannot take those scriptures and then judge everyone else's walk as too easy. For one thing, they were persecuted for Christ then. But we today try to apply "run the race, fight the fight" to "difficulties and trials" today, and conclude that it can't be hard enough.
    No, running the race, figting the fight, subjecting the "flesh" today might mean resisting the temptation (that's actually what "trial" means) to try to exalt ourselves through our own merits based on "will worship and show of humility, neglecting of the body" (Col.2:23, and note how in 1 Tim.4:8 "bodily exercise" is criticized also, so it must be put into perspective).

    We try to tell those who worry or fear to "rest in Christ", but then come up with these "no relaxing" concepts. This turns the Bible into double-talk, and then we wonder why people don;t get it!
    I tried to address some of these points here, but it was too long for a post, and went over everyone. The full text is here, and I've even added more to it since.
     

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