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Discussion in 'Forum for Polls' started by SaggyWoman, Jan 1, 2008.
The word says drunkeness is sin, they do not enter heaven.
That's not even the question... There is an enormous difference between drinking wine and drunkenness.
Is it our right to say how many glasses or bottles defines the word drunkenness when God's Word says "Look not thou..."?
Since He commands us not even to experience alcoholic beverages, it would appear that His definition of drunkenness may be a lot stricter than what many perceive to be drunkenness.
I think Paul told Timothy to use it as a medicine for his stomach.
Can we emphatically say that was alcoholic wine? Doctors will tell a person with stomach problems to lay off the alcohol.
Can we empathetically say that it was not alcoholic?
It only says that if you rip that verse out of its context, try to turn a general wisdom statement into a direct command from God, and use that statement as the defining key to interpret all other scripture.
Since Proverbs only teaches against drunkenness (like the rest of scripture), your point is not valid.
I'll have to go with Jesus' clear example over your interpretation:
1.) He drank wine as part of Jewish ritual (for instance, the Passover) as well as social occasions (so frequently with "the wrong crowd" he was accused of being a "winebibber").
2.) He provided a source of wine for a wedding party in Cana (John 2) where all they had to do is draw wine out of the well for their guests until the conclusion of the festivities.
The Bible does not say after you have had a little wine do not drink it.
It says don't have experience with it when it is fermented... not when you are fermented.
Jesus said it very clearly - it is not what goes into a person that defiles them but what comes out of the heart. What you take in to your body will not send you to hell. A heart that does not have the forgiveness of the Savior is what will go to hell. If a believer lies or gossips, they are forgiven and can still go to heaven. Even if a believer becomes drunk, he will not lose his salvation, even though he has sinned. We are not all yet perfect but when we see Jesus, we will be.
28Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
I for one believe that Alcohol (fermented wine) used as a beverage is wrong period. However, in light of Jesus' own words it is forgivable.
I have never been drunk and have never drank any alcohol. However I've been around folks that are drunk, have seen it's use by neighbors and talked with families that have been torn apart because of it. If one drinks, as I understand it, it loosens the inhibitions of the user. If one is drinking the tongue is the first inhibition loosed and I've witnessed many a church goer blaspheme while under it's influence.
Stay away from it my dear brothers and sisters in Christ, todays "wine" is strong drink and it is Satan's trap door to eternal damnation. You are responsible for your own actions and if you have chosen to drink and your tongue begins to speak those uncomely things, you are responsible.
May I please refer you to post #11.
I agree that we are responsible for what we do whether under the influence of alcohol or under the influence of coffee! Whatever we do, it's our own responsibility.
I don't understand why you are referring me to your post above me. From what I can see, other than the fact that we disagree as to whether the use of alcohol is wrong or not, we agree on everything else. I think one needs to really consider the circumstances around their drinking alcohol, why are they drinking it and what kind of affect it has on their body. When I drank (I no longer do), I'd have a glass of wine and never had any issues with it. I'd not have a "loosened" tongue or even, as some have said, become promiscuous or whatever. It would be one drink with a meal at home or at a restaurant. That was it. But due to our present ministry, we are aware that our use of alcohol would possibly make one of the college students that DH works with stumble so we do not partake. It's not that it's a sin but I don't want to encourage these young people to do something illegal when it's such a struggle in college anyway.
If it is not a sin to drink as you say, why don't you drink? Using the college kids as an excuse doesn't float.
If it is not a sin, it can't cause anyone to stumble.
Yet I know different. It is a sin and it does cause people to stumble.
That's just not true. Paul was quite clear that eating meat wasn't a sin, but it could be a stumbling block so he wouldn't eat it.
Now I've found two sins that cannot be covered by the blood of Jesus.
Divorce and drunkenness.
If you do something in moderation and it causes someone else to do something in moderation, then no, it isn't a sin.
If you do something in moderation and it causes a weaker brother to do something in excess, then that is not so good.
That said, I disagree with the college student thing
I think it would be better for college students to see a Godly example of an adult drinking in moderation.
Sex is also a strong temptation for college age students.
Should the youth pastor and his wife be celibate?
I don't think so.
But that is my opinion. That is for each person to decide in a particular situation.
Well, they certainly don't expect their pastor to be celibate but we certainly wouldn't do that in front of them either! LOL! But we also don't get overly snuggly in front of them either - nor will I dress in skimpy things for the same exact reason. My husband and I have become what we need to become for them - even giving up our liberty to be able to drink so that we will not cause them to stumble. It's not that there's anything WRONG with drinking - except that it's fully illegal for those we work with to partake - and so we will join in their drinking a Mountain Dew as opposed to a glass of wine or beer.
The only thing that can send you to hell is not accepting Jesus Christ's offer of salvation through His finished work on the cross, PERIOD.
There is no sin too heinous. There is no sin too big. There is no sin that cannot be forgiven. If there were, Jesus died in vain and we are all bound for hell.
Mountain Dew!! Mountain Dew!! Mountain Dew!!! Mountain Dew!!! Mountain Dew!! Mountain Dew !!!???????????
YOu mean like White lightning? :laugh:
That stuff will burn em up!!!
OHHHH.... YOU mean the Pepsi product, Mountain Dew...
YOu bad, bad person, don't you know that Caffeine is a drug also..
If Alcohol is a sin because it is a drug, so would Mountain Dew be.