Are you ordained?

Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by Hope of Glory, Mar 15, 2006.

  1. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory
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    I've seen this question posted in several different places, and I'm just curious as to what it means to different people.

    Here where I live, if you preach to 2 or more people on a weekly basis, the state considers you ordained.

    What standards do you look for in someone who is "ordained"?
     
  2. Joseph M. Smith

    Joseph M. Smith
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    I assume your tongue is firmly in your cheek when you speak about the state considering you ordained! The state ought to have nothing to do with that. So far as I know there are only two places at which ordination becomes a factor in dealing with government -- how your taxes are paid and whether you are authorized to solemnize marriage.

    The church I served as pastor incorporated into its bylaws criteria that stipulated that they would consider for ordination someone who, having met the obvious spiritual standards, had completed seminary training. The intent of this is to avoid laying hands on too lightly and to make sure that persons seeking ordination do intend to make ministry a lifelong, lifestyle, commitment, not just a momentary hobby.
     
  3. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory
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    I listed that as one extreme for the definition. That's why I asked the question. There are many different opinions about what constitutes "ordination".
     
  4. North Carolina Tentmaker

    North Carolina Tentmaker
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    In most states ordination is not a requirement for performing marriages. As far as I know ordination is required for performing baptism and administration of the Lord's Supper.

    I was not ordained until after I had completed my undergraduate degree and was serving as a Pastor. I had not at that time completed my Seminary degree.
     
  5. gb93433

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    I am ordained and it means nothing simply because I was discipling people beofe I was ordained and have since. It did nothing to affirm my ministry or gifts. I already knew.
     
  6. rbell

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    State by state, and church by church have differing rules in place regarding what you must be ordained to do...

    I think we've made ordination an extra-biblical thing anyway...I don't think that the early church put the emphasis on it that we do.

    Besides that, I don't think that taxes should be a reason we get ordained. That doesn't seem like a pure motive to me.

    Without writing a thesis here...the IRS has left a great deal of ambiguity in their code regarding "who is a minister" for tax purposes. One of their "tests" speaks of ordination; the other simply refers to "ministerial functions." In prosecuting tax cases against ministers, they use whichever rule lets them nail the defendant better.

    Back to ordination...do ya'll think we've made it into a "third ordinance" in many Baptist churches? I'm trying to balance in my mind the need for formally recognizing God's call on an individual and helping them through that process...yet not creating something that isn't needed.

    (not even sure that last paragraph even made sense)
     
  7. Rev. Lowery

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    In the USA a Minister of The Gospel and/or Ordained Minister in General may perform marriages even a Ordained Minister of the Satanic Church may perform legal marriages.

    To answer the OP

    Yes I am ordained

    1 Tim. 3

    1This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

    2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

    3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

    4One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

    5(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

    6Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

    7Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

    8Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

    9Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

    10And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.

    11Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

    12Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

    13For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

    14These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly:

    15But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

    16And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

    The only debate with this passage is what does it mean to be the husband of one wife. This varies by denomination. But, as a general rule one must be faithful to his wife and family and if divorced does Matt. 19:9 apply? If not then he is not the husband of one wife and would be disqualified from ordination.
     
  8. rbell

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    Well...not quite.

    You might want to check HERE for more, but state laws vary quite a bit. I'm not sure about the satanist church thing, but that's not important either way.
     
  9. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory
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    That's along my line of thinking, and that's why I asked the question. I hear so many people talk about being ordained, and there is a bit of difference between ideas that are inferred.

    The states do vary in their requirements. The ones that I am familiar with say that anyone who is ordained may perform a wedding, but they vary on what they mean. One state says you have to have a piece of paper from a religious institution. Where I am now only requires you to preach or teach to a religious gathering of at least two or more people (not family) on a weekly basis, with exceptions being made for not being able to gather every week.
     
  10. MRCoon

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    I'm currently going through the ordination process now according to my Church.

    My Dad was ordained after he finished Bible College and strted into the ministry.

    I've been working in the ministry for a few years now and have surrendered to full-time service. I know the Lord wants me in His service and I felt the next logical step was the public step of ordination.

    Our Church does the 'license to preach' first for a 6-month watchcare program to be followed by the actual ordination service.

    Anyone have any issues or alternatives to this process? I'm just curious.

    PS. I'm currently in Bible College now...not many in Japan so I'm doing the online bit and should be done in less than a year with a degree in Pastoral Theology :D
     
  11. RandR

    RandR
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    I think the IRS code is written a bit ambiguously because of denominational differences, and not necessarily to give them more latitude in nailing people. It uses the terminology "licensed, commissioned, or ordained." Which of those three terms used is less important than whether or not the person meets several specific criteria that identify him or her as a minister.

    The Church of Christ, for example, does not ordain, it only licenses. But CoC ministers who meet the 5-part test still qualify. Some denominations don't ordain missionaries, but they do have "commissioned" missionaries who meet the 5-part test. In both of those cases, the licensed or commissioned person qualifies under IRS rules because they meet the criteria, even though they aren't considered "ordained."

    We Baptists have a tendency to muddy the waters a bit with they way we "license" AND "ordain." Historically, to be "licensed to preach" was little more than a church's recognition and approval of the person's call to and giftedness for ministry. This isn't exactly what the IRS has in mind by "licensed." But that hasn't stopped any number of people from using their Baptist "license" to garner them tax breaks, even though they don't meet the 5-part test. It is they who run the risk of messing it up for the rest of us.

    I know of one church who regularly "licensed" people to the ministry who were school teachers or university professors in order to qualify them for a housing allowance or even to opt out of FICA (which saved the teacher and the organization money). Most of those that they "licensed" wouldn't have met the IRS criteria if ever audited or investigated.

    Of course, now I'm way off track from the original post. Sorry.
     
  12. jshurley04

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    When it comes to baptism, it is the church body that authorizes a person to baptize and not a matter of ordination. In most churches that I have been in, if a dad wants to baptize his son or daughter and is not normally authorized by the church, the body has the right to give permission to authorize baptizm. Ordination does not matter.

    Ordination is up to the church and the pastor. I know of a wonderful pastor in MO. that has pastored for years and is not ordained and his church is fine with that. I do not see ordination as needful unless a church is sending one out to minister in the way a missionary would.

    Just my 10 cents (inflated for gas)
     
  13. Brother Ian

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    I am ordained.

    An ordination candidate must have a call on his life from the Lord and it must be recognized by the church. Of course, the biblical qualifications of 1 Timothy and Titus must be evident in the man's life. The ordination is the affirmation of the church that the candidate does possess the gifts that are required to do the work of the ministry.

    Ordination is not required to conduct baptisms or serve the Lord's Supper. It is up to the church.

    Here's another can of worms: Is the ordination to the Gospel Ministry the same as the ordination to the Deacon Ministry?
     
  14. Shiloh

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    What is a Deacon Ministry? A deacon is a servant, a helper. A deacon is "appointed" not ordained.
     
  15. Brother Ian

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    Ordination of deacons is a common practice in the church today. I agree deacons are servants, but are still ordained, or set apart, as deacons.
     
  16. Joseph M. Smith

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    Back when I lived in Lexington, KY, and was campus minister at the University of Kentucky, the church of which I was a member asked me to serve as a deacon. Then they couldn't figure out whether to ordain me as a deacon, ignoring my ministerial ordination, or to let ministerial ordination trump diaconate ordination! I was not too sure either but we all settled for not ordaining me again. Today I would view it differently ... it is not sacramental, but the act itself is a wonderful, warm, opportunity for affirmation. When I have presided over ordinations of deacons or clergy I have always asked the entire congregation to come forward and lay on hands, not just the previously ordained. The intent is to underscore that it is the whole people of God who set apart, not some form of apostolic succession.
     
  17. j_barner2000

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    Not yet. Most of the men who have served this church did so as first time pastors, for a year to 18 months. The congregation was told by a couple of seminaries that this was a good place for a new preacher to cut his teeth. They all wanted ordination, and left shortly afterward, so it was offered to me... I asked the church if they would mind if this was not just a place to get my feet wet, but if I looked at it as the ministry God has called me to. They are accepting, finally, that I meant that I plan to stay here till God makes it obvious that I need to move. So nope, not ordained, and don't plan to do it till the Lord tells me to move on. Then I will ask for ordination.
     

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