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Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Istherenotacause, May 8, 2003.
Where was the last place it was seen, and where is it now?
From memory it was last seen on the mountain when the Nazis opened it and they all got BBQ'd by spooks. It is now in a box in a warehouse...
Ok, I'll be serious, from Holman Bible Dictionary article The precise time of the theft or destruction of the ark is unknown. Some have suggested Shishak of Egypt plundered the Temple of this most holy object (1 Kings 14:25-28), but it seems more likely, from Jeremiah 3:16-17, that the Babylonians captured or destroyed the ark in 587 B.C. with the fall of Jerusalem and the burning of the Temple. As Jeremiah predicted, the ark was never rebuilt for the second Temple, the holy of holies remaining empty.
If you would like a good strong headache, try a search on "Ark of the Covenant" in google So far I have found 4 or 5 "definite locations of the..."
[ May 08, 2003, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Titus2_1 ]
Of course this is only rumor, and I'm not trying to spread one, but my understanding is that the ark was carried away privately just before the imminent destruction of the Temple and hidden by the Levites.
I suppose I started this thread to examine one's speculation of it's whereabouts, hoping to deminish some of the anymosity that seems to prevail in some threads over some of the most ludricrus topics.
Of course everything we have here on earth is only a replica of the things reserved in heaven concerning the things of God. The Ark of the Covenant is forever preserved in Heaven, just as the Word of God is forever settled, in Heaven.
I did see it one time being hauled in a 60's model Econoline van going up the expressway. Some one must have removed it from the warehouse!
The Newbie takes a shot.
The Ark of the Covenant is the most divisive topic I've ever seen brought up in a Baptist Church. Its like having a 2 for 1 Baptist Business Meeting Brawl. COOL! Sign me up for this debate!
Mmmm...considering that in the past few years that Graham Hancock, Bob Cornuke, The History Channel & The Associated Press have all looked into the Axum, Ethiopia theories (there are two), I'm going to put my money on Axum.
Because of those 4 sources? No.
Because of Isaiah 18, Zephaniah 3:10..and the Ethiopian Treasurer in Acts 8? Yes.
For sake of debate, let's say that the Ark IS in Ethiopia and has been for about 2500 years. IF this IS true...then The Ethiopian Treasurer in Acts 8 is not just in Jerusalem to worhip, he's on a mission to find the Messiah. The context of the scripture bears this out. Also, If ANYBODY in the New Testament knows anything about the Ark... this would be the guy.
The support of Scripture for Ethiopia having SOMETHING definitely is there.
Is it the Ark? Don't know. Is it the Mercy Seat only? Time will tell.
The Ethiopians say they aren't bringing it out til The Messiah returns.
All Kings need a throne.
[ June 26, 2003, 02:03 AM: Message edited by: stevenlynch ]
Bah its under the Temple Mount
The ark of the covenant is in the temple of God in heaven.[Revelation 11:19]
This is the Ark that I'm in, right under the mercy seat.....
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
See what I mean!
The Ark in Heaven mentioned in Revelation is the original. The one Moses commissioned is a copy of it.
So where's Moses' copy?
And if scripture says that Ethiopia has a gift to present to the Messiah in the Millenial Kingdom (and it does Isaiah 18, Zeph. 3:10), then what are they going to bring?
Why have the Jewish/Christian Ethiopians been guarding this object for 2500 years?
And, Why will they not bring it out until THEY SAY the Messiah returns?
Why do they have sacrificial tools from the First Temple period including a meat fork with an almond bud on it?
Why do they have silver hammered trumpets that look just like the ones on the Arch of Titus?
Why were the Knights Templar so interested in this object that it led to their dividing their forces in Jerusalem to obtain it? It caused them to lose Jerusalem.
What's the significance of the Ethiopian Pharoah who is present in II Chronicles 35 (Neco) when the Ark disappears from the pages of scripture?
Brothers and sisters in Christ, I beseech you to examine the evidence in the Bible and the research done on the issue before you dismiss this entirely. Its an exciting bible study to say the least.
I know the Tabernacle was a copy of the perfect one in heaven as per Hebrews. However I find no reference anywhere to the Ark of the Covenant being only a shadow or copy of one in heaven. Could you please reference me biblically on this.
If we find it what will it prove?... Will it strengthen your faith?... Does your faith need to be strengthened?... Not mine I see by an eye of faith... Maybe if we finally discovered Noah's Ark then that would put an end to the critics?... Don't think so!... Put this in perspective... The Son Of God Jesus came to the earth and told everyone that came in contact with him who he is!... Yet some kept asking who are you really?... Are you really who you say you are?... There is your Ark Of The Covenant and that is why the other one is just an ornament of no religious significance now... It was fulfilled in Jesus The Christ... They are types and shadows of the true that is now on the right hand of God making intercession for the saints!... Brother Glen
All I know is that I would LOVE it if the Ark were discovered, and I would REALLY love to see it.
My guess is that it is under the temple mount, probably near where they found some of the utensils during a dig (then the dig was cancelled and the passage sealed).
These are for Helen:
Helen...I hate throwing tons of scripture at folks...it makes me feel so "Seventh Day Adventist" but you asked for it...and it is a cool bible study.
Exd 25:9 According to all that I shew thee, [after] the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make [it].
Exd 25:40 And look that thou make [them] after their pattern, which was shewed thee in the mount.
You can really read the last half of Exodus 24 and all of chapter 25 then go to the Hebrews 8 & 9 and Acts 7 culminating here:
Act 7:44 Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as he had appointed, speaking unto Moses, that he should make it according to the fashion that he had seen.
Hbr 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, [that] thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
Hbr 9:23 [It was] therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Will it strengthen my faith?
Even if the object in St. Mary's of Zion church in Axum IS the Ark, I'll never see it. (until the Millenial Kingdom perhaps)
But for the pure fact that it made me want to search the scriptures, I'll answer you Yes.
Do I need some sort of fetish object to increase my faith? No.
Faith comes by hearing the Word of God according to Paul.
Let me ask you Brother Glen..in love.. at what point do you make up your mind about scripture that you determine that there is no more to be learned about any subject?
One last question. What " Throne of David " will the Master rule from?
Its not my purpose to cause dissension amongst my brothers. Far be it.
I just think its a cool subject and I find the possibilities of the Axum site exciting beyond measure.
Folks may enjoy making jokes about the Ark like it was an "Elvis Sighting"... God seemed to take the Ark quite seriously, just ask the Hemorrhoid afflicted Philistines.
[ July 02, 2003, 02:21 AM: Message edited by: stevenlynch ]
It just so happens that there is an online lecture availible this week on the 66/40 radio program hosted by Dr. Chuck Missler about the Axum Theory. You can listen at this site:
66/40 Radio show for week of June 30 -- the Ethiopian Ark
Minor nit-picky correction. Faith comes by hearing and hearing [comes] by the utterance of God.
Steven... First of all nothing anyone says on here if it is opposite to what I say does not bother me as it does some. You have every right to disagree with me and no hard feelings but I still say that Jesus Christ will not touch this earth... Sit on a throne on earth and rule here?... For what reason?... I will give all you brethren this he may but I don't believe he will... Then I may be wrong and you may be wrong... Then again what ever comes will come.
The scriptures state that we will meet him in the air... He will call and we will answer... We will come forth from the graves to meet him in the air... Show me one place in the scripture where it says he will rule from a throne on this earth?... Btw... I'm Amil and I don't buy the 1,000 year reign but like I say on here to each his own... I believe Jesus Christ is coming again to ressurect his own... Judge those who are not his... And take his children home!... If the scriptures state we will meet him in the air... Then the throne and judgement are also in the air... I don't believe he will set foot in Pella either!... He's coming again to take his grace wrought blood bought children home to glory... Even so... Come Lord Jesus!... AMEN!... Brother Glen
To your last comment...I agree Come Lord Jesus! Amen!
ok... since your Amillennial..I'm not sure how me throwing verses at you is going to sway your thinking any, but I'll make the effort anyway at the end.
I think most of the reason that pre-mill folks think its an actual 1000 year reign on Earth is because is says it 6 times in Rev. 20. There's some interesting stuff in Isaiah 65 too.
By the way, what's Pella? Also, how does the Amill viewpoint see Israel and the promises God made to them?
Ok...I found about 10 passages, here are the 2 shortest and best:
Isa 16:5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.
Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
One more for good measure:
Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
That one obviously doesn't hold to just a thousand years. I heard a Messianic Jew speak on the Kingdom parables of Matthew 13 and I learned more in one hour from him than in all the commentaries you'll ever find on the subject. He was totally dispensational in his teaching on the Kingdom. It ended a lot of speculation about the Millennial Kingdom period for me. Its ALSO a Dr. Missler radio program, an interview with Albert Israeli. You can listen to it here if you are interested: Thy Kingdom Come
Thanks for the time Brother Glen!
We amils take a lot of abuse on this board--but if you want to check the archives you'll find we have just as many hard questions for dispies as they have for us.
But back on subject--the ark held God's covenant with Israel. that's why it was referred to in Rev. 11 as judgement upon Israel was about to fall. (Ah yes, a partial-pret. to boot!).
The ark is nothing more than a curiousity to us who live under the terms of the New Covenant--the physical shadow of a greater spiritual Law--the law of Christ.
Where is it? I don't think it really matters--but my guess is that the Babylonians captured it and ultimately destroyed it. God still had His copy of the covenant, and poured His judgement upon those who didn't keep it and also rejected the New Covenant in Christ.
Appreciate the input.
Only thing is...there is no scriptural evidence of the Babylonian theory.
There is for Ethiopia. Both Historical AND evidencial.
The last time the Ark is mentioned in Scripture, it was out of the Temple and being transported by the Priests. King Josiah seems obsessed with returning it and restoring sacrificial rites and observances to the nation of Israel.
Then there is weird stuff going on between Josiah and Pharoah Necho in II Chronicles 35.
Necho claims that God is with him and he is hearing directly from the mouth of God.
Necho was not Egyptian...he was Ethiopian.
From this time period an object thought to be the Ark can be traced to Elephantine Island for about 200 years where sacrifices where performed. (Isaiah 19:19-21) There is evidence of a Jewish settlement on this Island and a tabernacle layout.
Then to Tana Kirkos Island for around 700 years there is a tabernacle layout also on this island. There are still monks living there today who have meat forks and other sacrificial tools from the first Temple period. I've seen pictures and video of these objects. There are eyewitnesses to these objects as well.
Then around 300 A.D. this object was taken by the Christian Ethiopian King who stopped the sacrifices and delivered it to Axum where it remains today.
Thousands of CHRISTIAN Ethiopians guard it day and night. A priesthood oversees it with a guardian who remains within the compound until he dies.
A Levitical Priesthood.
Moses had an Ethiopian wife. His sister Miriam had a problem with her and God punished Miriam with leprosy over the event.
Thousands of Ethiopian Jews have been airlifted to Israel during the past 20 years. Don't you think its interesting that there is a large Jewish population in a destitute African nation?
Even the Knights Templar had an interest in Ethiopia, one that caused them to lose their hold on Jerusalem.
The priests in Axum say they aren't bringing it out until the Messiah returns.
OK...now let's get to the point. IF this object in Axum IS the Mercy Seat And IF this object is to be presented to the Messiah like it says in Isaiah 18:7 AND Zephaniah 3:10 then what do I do with this information?
I share it with folks interested in the Ark, because it sure is a lot more fun to talk about this...then debate the timing of the Rapture and Amill/Pre-mill junk.
I've seen documentaries which present the Ethiopian connection. It certainly seems possible--and impossible to prove or disprove. That makes it a good mystery, sort of like the Shroud of Turin.