Arminian...Calvinist....Must one decide?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by fortytworc, Mar 31, 2012.

  1. fortytworc

    fortytworc
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    I see many hours of study, much thought, tremendous emotional energy, and a WHOLE LOTTA TIME is spent by several people on this site debating, discussing, arguing, trying to explain and convince each other to "switch teams" ( and does this ever happen?). My questions on this are : Why? What is the importance? Must one take a side (stance?)
    Do these things affect my salvation, my relationship and walk with God? My witness and testimony in and to the world around me? Would God have any of us use up so much time with these? HMMMM! Should I spend as much time as I do doing just exactly what I'm doing now?....But That's another post sometime. Please send me to school on this. Let's make it High school Sophomore grade (Today's Sophomore) on the terms, concepts, and no fighting on this schoolyard.
     
    #1 fortytworc, Mar 31, 2012
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  2. mandym

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    Or one could just choose to be neither and be true to scripture.
     
  3. DHK

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    I like that idea, and it is what I try to do.
    Unless one goes specifically to a church that is reformed in doctrine, Calvinism is one doctrinal stand that is splitting many churches. Thus it is important. We have two churches in our area that are being affected by this. One church has already gone through a split because of it, and the other church's membership has been decimated because of it. In both cases the churches adopted a Calvinistic stand.

    Doctrine is important. As to the title of the OP, the Calvinist's MO is often to paint all who are not Calvinist as Arminian. That is the default position in their mind. But it is a false conclusion. I am not a Calvinist, nor am I an Arminian. As both camps will say as well, "I am a Biblicist." However, what else can I say? The Bible is my final authority, not the creed of a man.

    Since the belief systems of both Calvinism and Arminianism are so different it is important to know what you believe and why you believe it. Doctrine divides. I have fellowship with the people of the church I attend because it is not Calvinistic. But don't misunderstand me. That doesn't mean I consider my Calvinistic brethren unsaved.

    Sometimes the opposite is true however. There is a Calvinist poster on the board that believes Calvinism is the gospel, and if you don't believe it you are not saved.

    I posted this link in another forum earlier. It exposes Calvinism. Any Calvinist will mock it. They will because it goes so contrary to their position. One of them said this preacher was not saved. That is going too far. See for yourself:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch6niCdIv_Q&feature=related[​IMG]
     
  4. seekingthetruth

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    I am neither Arminian nor Calvinist.

    If it werent for a couple of really extreme beliefs added to reformed theology then I would have to say that my beliefs would lean closer to Calvinism.

    But those couple of extreme beliefs stop me in my tracks and prevent me from being reformed.

    But on the other hand, I am definately not Arminian either.

    I dont believe either camp is totally scriptural.

    John
     
  5. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    I am with you there. I have never espoused "Calvinism" because I do not believe in the entire system endorsed by that title. However, I do believe in unconditional election, effectual calling through the gospel, eternal preservation of the elect, definite atonement and the total depravity of the human nature. God has elected the persons as well as the means of salvation.

    The issue is not that one must believe these theological positions to be saved as those who are initially saved understand little of these things. The issue is ultimately the glory of God - 1 Cor. 1:26-31. We are saved for the glory of God and any doctrine or system of soteriology that robs the glory from God and gives it to man is to be condemned and avoided as all sin is coming "short of the glory of God." Arminianism theoretically glorifies the human will and makes it ultimately sovereign over God.
     
  6. convicted1

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    Why does it even matter?

    If you're a Calvinist, you were predestined to be one.

    If you are a non-Cal, then you used your free will to be that way.

    :D :laugh: :) :flower:
     
  7. fortytworc

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    It is good to see I am not the only cornball here.
     
  8. Michael Wrenn

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    That is not correct. Arminianism actually magnifies the sovereignty of God by glorifying His character; it accentuates how God loves us enough to endow us with an essential part of His character -- freedom.
     
  9. convicted1

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    Some babies were found in the cabbage patch, I, unfortunately, was found in the cornfield....:laugh:
     
  10. Moriah

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    Accidently posted multiple times.
     
    #10 Moriah, Apr 1, 2012
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  11. Moriah

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    Accidentally posted multiple times.
     
    #11 Moriah, Apr 1, 2012
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  12. Moriah

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    Accidentally posted multiple times.
     
    #12 Moriah, Apr 1, 2012
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  13. Moriah

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    You bet the Truth is important and that it affects your salvation. Do you want God’s Truth, or some religion’s truth? I want only God’s Truth. If you are not in God’s Truth, then you are in a man’s truth. Acts 5:29, "We ought to obey God rather than men". How do you think you can deal with sin in your life if you do not have the power and wisdom of the Truth? The relationship with Jesus is by His Word, it is a deep and personal relationship. Do you want a deep and personal relationship with the spirit of Calvin? Do you not know that false doctrines are from demons? 1 Timothy 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
    People teaching falseness are actually doing the work of the devil. 2 Timothy 2:25-26 Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

    Deuteronomy 4:2; 5:32, Proverbs 30:5-6 and Revelation 22:18-19 warn against adding to or detracting from Scripture.
    We are exhorted to check out teaching against Scripture (Isaiah 8:20; Acts 17:11.)

    Jesus says that tradition keeps man from God’s truth:

    Matthew 15:6-9 Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

    “‘These people honor me with their lips,
    but their hearts are far from me.
    They worship me in vain;
    their teachings are but rules taught by men.’”

    Did you hear that? You NULLIFY the word of God when we believe and obey in manmade commands.

    The knowledge of God through Jesus Christ gives peace. Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 2 Peter 1:2.

    Here are many scriptures to support debating.

    Acts 9:29
    He talked and debated with the Grecian Jews, but they tried to kill him.

    Acts 15:1 Some men came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved." This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question.

    Acts 18:28
    For he vigorously refuted the Jews in public debate, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.

    Acts 19:8-9 Paul entered the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God. But some of them became obstinate: they refused to believe and publicly maligned the Way. So Paul left them.

    2 Corinthians 3:11 Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is plain to God, and I hope that it is plain to your conscience.

    2 Corinthians 10:5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

    Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ. Galatians 1:10

    Paul opposes Peter. See Galatians 2:11-21

    Galatians 4:16 Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?

    Ephesians 4:11 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

    Philippians 1:7-8 It is right for me to feel this way about all of you, since I have you in my heart; for whether I am in chains or defending and confirming the gospel, all of you share in God's grace with me. God can testify how I long for all of you with the affection of Christ Jesus.

    1 Timothy 1:3-4 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work—which is by faith.

    1 Timothy 4:6 If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.

    2 Timothy 2:25-26 Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

    2 Timothy 4:2-4 Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

    Titus 1:9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

    Jude 3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints.

    Acts 4:20 For we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard.

    I cannot help speak about what I know about Jesus. So, why are you even in a debate group if you do not know why one should spend so much time speaking the Truth?
     
    #13 Moriah, Apr 1, 2012
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  14. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Well you can make gas outa both Cabbage & Corn....however you can make Whiskey outa corn & thats a plus for corn.:love2:
     
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

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    You are right.......Welcome to BB! you will sort out the nuts in no time. They are all protecting they're nuts. :laugh:
     
  16. preacher4truth

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    LOL!!!!!! :laugh: Thanks for the laugh. :thumbs: :wavey:

    Wasn't it Jesus who said we are slaves, not free?

    Arminian false teachings actually detract from the Sovereignty and Glory of God. Big time. It's actually narcissistic at its core and is a prime example of anthropocentric theology.
     
    #16 preacher4truth, Apr 1, 2012
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  17. seekingthetruth

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    Let's see? The Word of God vs the Word of Calvin vs The Word of Arminius?

    Hmmmm???....I pick God.

    John
     
    #17 seekingthetruth, Apr 1, 2012
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  18. preacher4truth

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    That's a nice strawman argument. Please show where I used the words of Calvin, OK?

    That's right, I didn't and you can't.

    My reference of being slaves, it's found in the Word of God, try John 8, thus we're not free prior to salvation.

    Actually argue spoken facts, not assumptions or pipe dreams. :wavey: :thumbsup: :smilewinkgrin:
     
  19. SolaSaint

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    Calvinism teaches God's soverienty

    Arminianism teaches man's free will

    The bible teaches God's soverienty through man's free will somehow. Why do we have to totally understand how God saves? Let's just love Him since he does.

    One poster linked a preacher claiming Calvinism is heresy. It is guy's like this that give Christianity a black eye by calling anyone who disagrees with him a heretic. The same goes for any Calvinistic preacher who calls Arminians Heretics. We all need to admit many scriptures claim God's soverienty and many man's free will. How can that be? Satan has got us all to use the bible against each other, how cunning he is. If we would just learn to see scripture as a whole revelation and not pick verses that support our beliefs only.
     
  20. preacher4truth

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    Mans will for salvation is not free, we are slaves to sin, not in freedom of the will prior to salvation.
     

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