Arminians are pro-choice

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by whatever, Apr 27, 2005.

  1. whatever

    whatever
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    A non-calvinist in another thread opined that God gives all men the ability to choose, therefore in his view salvation is all of God. Suppose one man exercises that choice to believe and the other doesn't. Why doesn't the believer get any credit for exercising that choice? Why does God get all of the credit, if He did no more for the believer than He did for the unbeliever?
     
  2. natters

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    > Why doesn't the believer get any credit for exercising that choice?

    "credit"? Why should he?
     
  3. whatever

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    Why shouldn't he? Since God didn't make the difference between the two, what did make the difference?
     
  4. natters

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    I am definitely not Calvinist, but I'm not willing to say God was uninvolved. So God makes some difference, sure.

    We are saved by grace (God's part) through faith (our part). The only "credit" we get for our choice is like Abraham: "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness" - but this is not for our glory.
     
  5. Timtoolman

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    When does the reciever of a gift get the glory? I just don't see how they come to this conclusion.
     
  6. whatever

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    I didn't say anything about glory. What makes the difference between the one who believes and the one who doesn't?
     
  7. natters

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    What makes the difference in other choices? Many factors.
     
  8. Timtoolman

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    The one rejected the atonement and the other didn't. Why did not all of Isreal paint their post with the blood? They had a choice?
     
  9. whatever

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    So are you saying that we are saved because we choose to believe, just as they were passed over because they chose to obey? Cause is what I'm after. What causes one to believe, and what causes another to not believe? Whatever it is that causes salvation is what gets credit for salvation.
     
  10. Timtoolman

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    So are you saying that we are saved because we choose to believe, just as they were passed over because they chose to obey? Cause is what I'm after. What causes one to believe, and what causes another to not believe? Whatever it is that causes salvation is what gets credit for salvation. </font>[/QUOTE]Well then thats where we part. I say whoever provided the salvation gets the credit. The one who made it possiable for me too believe gets the credit. I know of no other logic that says because someone recieves he thus is part of the gift, or has contrubuted to the gift.
     
  11. natters

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    God causes salvation. We still have to choose to accept it.
     
  12. Timtoolman

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    God causes salvation. We still have to choose to accept it. </font>[/QUOTE]God has made salvation available. It is done. Finished. HOw can something that is finished be added too. choice sure doesn't contribute. I understand this concept, most do. Just calvinist seem to have a hard time grasping this simple truth.
     
  13. whatever

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    Even for the one who doesn't believe?
     
  14. Timtoolman

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    Yes it is, where is stated that its not available too all?
     
  15. whatever

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    Yes, salvation is available to all who will believe. But I'm not asking about available salvation. I am asking about actual salvation. The believer has it and the unbeliever doesn't. Why? What is the reason that the believer is actually saved but the unbeliever isn't? Is it the believer's choice? God's work? Something else?
     
  16. Timtoolman

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    Yes, salvation is available to all who will believe. But I'm not asking about available salvation. I am asking about actual salvation. The believer has it and the unbeliever doesn't. Why? What is the reason that the believer is actually saved but the unbeliever isn't? Is it the believer's choice? God's work? Something else? </font>[/QUOTE]You have answered it yourself. One believed and one didn't. They have rejected the Christ and the atonement. God through His grace has laid it out for man. He must chose. Why would not God just make Adam and Eve not sin instead of going through the cross and them making them to be saved. I suspect it has to do with free will.
    Why did moses and david at times obey God and then disobey God?
     
  17. BobRyan

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    "Credit" for what? Saving himself OR for "obedience"?

    In the Bible those how Obey DO get approval in BOTH OT and NT.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  18. Wes Outwest

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    What do you call "Everlasting life", if not credit for making the right choice?
     
  19. ILUVLIGHT

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    Hi Whatever;
    Obviously God makes the difference we only trust him he does the rest. Believing in God is not a work of man but the work of God.
    Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
    Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
    How is it that you think that this is a work of man?
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
  20. whatever

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    "Credit" for what? Saving himself OR for "obedience"?

    In the Bible those how Obey DO get approval in BOTH OT and NT.

    In Christ,

    Bob
    </font>[/QUOTE]Hi Bob,

    Credit for actually being saved, which is not the same as saving himself. I'm just trying to see how any non-calvinist could say that a man must exercise his choice to be saved, and also maintain that "salvation is all of God". Just to reiterate, I'm talking about a person holding actual salvation (and not just the existence of a potential salvation out there somewhere for any who will believe).

    So far everybody's just dancing.
     

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