Arminians do not preach universalism

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by BobRyan, Nov 19, 2013.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    In a recent thread I pointed out the solution to the Calvinist complaint that the Arminian unlimited atoning sacrifice at the cross - has an elegant Bible solution in the work of Christ not only at the cross but also in Christ's current work as our High Priest according Hebrews 8:1-5 being done while seated at the right hand of the Father sanctuary in heaven.

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2050487&postcount=1

    Four pages in - this Arminian solution was shut down - no explanation.

    If certain Arminian solutions to Calvinists complaints about the Arminian POV - are not allowed on this C/A board someone please let me in on the secret.

    For now -- I am assuming that the Arminian answer to that Calvinist complaint about the unlimted atoning sacrifice at the cross - is still a valid subject for Calvinist vs Arminian threads.

    Having said that - I am not claiming that Calvinists will like the fact that Arminians have a Bible answer to their accusation.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #1 BobRyan, Nov 19, 2013
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  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    I have been assured that the subject is welcome by the admins - but threads will end after a few days of being idle.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  3. Winman

    Winman
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    Actually, Universalism came out of Calvinism, not Arminianism. Certain Calvinists interpreted certain scriptures like Rom 5:18-19 to say that if Adam caused all men to become sinners, then Jesus caused all men to be righteous.

    Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
    19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    It was Unconditional Election that caused some Calvinists to interpret these verses to teach Universalism. If God unconditionally imputes Adam's sin to all men, not because of any good or evil in them, then God must likewise unconditionally impute Jesus's righteousness to all men according to these verses.

    And truth be told, those who believe this have a very valid point.

    The problem with this view is that neither sin or righteousness are unconditionally imputed to anyone. Romans 5:12 is not saying Adam's sin passed on all men, but death. HUGE difference. And properly interpreted, it says that death passed on all men, FOR THAT ALL HAVE SINNED.

    So, judgment and condemnation are not unconditionally imputed to men, but conditionally imputed to men who personally sinned as Adam did.

    What Adam DID DO was set a LEGAL PRECEDENT for sin. He established what would be the universal and permanent judgment for sin, and that is DEATH. That is what these scriptures are saying.

    Likewise, salvation is not unconditional, but conditional. Righteousness is only imputed to those who conditionally believe on Jesus Christ.

    Jesus also set the legal precedent when he believed on his Father and trusted him, dying on the cross and believing the Father to raise him from the dead.

    Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
     
    #3 Winman, Nov 20, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  4. Yeshua1

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    The problem is that is NOT the arminian response, but the one taht you received form the false revelations of Ellen White!

    Arminians still stuck with either God Will to save can and is overcame by sinners, or else most will go to hell, with atonement made and provided for them by God!
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    Until you "look" at the details on that thread and notice that not only are the Arminians in agreement with the explanation for the unlimited Atoning Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross - combined with the case-by-case ministry of Christ as High Priest "cleansinig the conscience from dead works" in Hebrews 8 and 9 after the cross... so even are some Calvinists like JonC accepting the Bible teaching on that point.

    Your - "deny all" solution when something does not please your man made traditions - is not the compelling answer that you may have at first imagined.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    The Bible concept of "atonement" in Lev 16 expands farther than the Calvinist downsizing of it - and so Christ as Sin offering AND Christ as High Priest are BOTH included in the Bible scope of the subject.

    =============================

    Originally Posted by BobRyan [​IMG]
    Hebrews points to Christ as our High priest in heaven in both Heb 8 and 9 and He does his ministry - in heaven - seated at the right hand of the Father.

    Heb 8
    The New Priestly Service

    8 Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.
    3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it is necessary that this One also have something to offer. 4 For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; 5 who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, “See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.


    Heb 4
    14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
    15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
    16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

    "We HAVE a High Priest" who "IS a Minister" - not "We HAD a High Priest".


    Heb 9
    arnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. 11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
    12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
    13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
    14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
    15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

    24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
     

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