Arminians That I Admire

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Rippon, Aug 10, 2006.

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  1. Rippon

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    Perhaps this has been a theme of a thread in the past , but I will press ahead . This thread is meant mainly for the Calvinists here . What Arminians of the past and/or present do you respect despite their theological weaknesses ? Many Arminians of the past , for instance , were godly men who might have even been scholarly . There is much to learn from them .

    I place Alexander Maclaren (1826-1910) at the top of my list . He was a friend of Spurgeon . MacLaren's sermons were considered topnotch . I only have one ( in a collection of sermons by many preachers ) : The Pattern of Service . It was based on Mark 7:33,34 . At some point I will acquire a book of his messages . He is solid ( with qualifications ) .

    George Campbell Morgan ( 1863-1945 ) ranks rather high . He was the senior minister at Westminster Chapel in London . Morgan recruited Dr.Lloyd-Jones as his Associate pastor . I mentioned a book of sermons in the previous paragraph . Morgan has :The Perfect Ideal of Life . It is based on John 8:28-30 . His sermons are not really my cup of tea -- they're not doctrinal enough -- but they do show a keen intellect . I've had his life story by Harold Murray for several months . But I may donate it to my church library .

    I don't have any sermons or books by Frederick Brotherton Meyer ( 1847-1929 ) but I have known of him for a long time . If I can secure an inexpensive paperback by the man , I will .

    Well , my fellow beievers in the doctrine(s) of grace -- now it is your turn to name some notable ( or not so famous ) Arminians that you have looked up to .
     
  2. LeBuick

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    Where do you find books on G Campbell Morgan. I have his through the Bible and really love it. I would like to visit more of his books.
     
  3. npetreley

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    C.S. Lewis. A flaming free-willer, but I admire him all the same.

     
  4. 2BHizown

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    #4 2BHizown, Aug 10, 2006
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  5. J.D.

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    Tozer was Arminian? I might be confusing him with someone else.

    If an Arminian stayed true to his own doctrine he might get accused of being a Calvinist today. Arminius nor Wesley ever claim that salvation was by natural ability, or that God holds a weak, dependent position in the transaction, much unlike the preachers today that are so eager to record "decisions" for bragging rights. What is prevelant today is a mixture of Pelagianism with Socianism, Sandemanianism, and every sort of mixture of doctrine imaginable. But it's to be expected along with the freedom of conscience that we Baptists practice.

    Also, since the advance of revivalism and easy believism, doctrinal purity has come to be defined by the leaders of the particular camp, association, or fellowship one belongs to. Historical development of doctrine has been poo-pooed to the point that instead of informing our minds to the truth, it is a by-word, an issue of derision.

    Of course, there are many synergists that are sound in their fundamentalism and reject the 1-2-3 repeat after me approach to the Gospel, and have great zeal for holiness and biblical order. I appreciate them.
     
  6. 2BHizown

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    Tozer was not a proponent of Calvinism - I can't remember him even mentioning that word in anything he's written, yet Calvinists seem to love him, nonetheless. Just in the last few days both Steve Camp and Al Mohler held Tozer up as the example of doctrinally righteous Christianity. Curious.http://www.dedelen.com/2005/07/everyone-wants-piece-of-tozer.html

    Tozer damned "easy believism" and Christianity as "entertainment" - Yet the bookstores of seeker-sensitive megachurches stock his books and their pastors even quote him.
     
    #6 2BHizown, Aug 10, 2006
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  7. npetreley

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    I'm not a fan of Tozer. Some of his stuff is a good read, but he uses some really inappropriate analogies to justify his views.

     
  8. LeBuick

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    I remember Tozer being a Judeo Christian and taught observanse of the law as the means to being Holy and righteous. I must not be thinking of the same guy.
     
  9. npetreley

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    I don't think that's Tozer, but I do find Tozer to be quite a legalist.
     
  10. Baptist_Pastor/Theologian

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    Dr. Paige Patterson is a modern Luther with an Arminian leaning. He is president of SWBTS, former president of SEBTS and the SBC, and a great man of God.
     
  11. LeBuick

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    You're right, now I remember as I found his book titled Knowledge of the Holy. I took a class at Iliff school of Theology which was taught by a Judeo Christian. This was the text book he used for most of the class.

    He believed we were still under the law and he still observed more of the feast. He took us through the passover, marriage feast etc... The class was excellent and greatly helped me understand OT customs but you had to weed through his belief. I don't mind, I believe in hearing everyone's point of view.
     
  12. Dr. Bob

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    Patterson may not be as reformed as he should be, but when I was at Dallas (FBC) he was preaching often and I never would but him in that arminian camp.

    Kinda like calling Pink a semi-pelagian! :laugh:
     
  13. StraightAndNarrow

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    Seminary presidents Mohler and Patterson debate Calvinism
    By Tony Cartledge
    Published June 13, 2006
    http://www.abpnews.com/1086.article

    GREENSBORO, N.C. (ABP) -- Baptist seminary presidents Paige Patterson and Albert Mohler may have philosophical differences on the subject of divine election as interpreted by Calvinism, but those differences have small practical effect, an hour-long dialogue between the two revealed.
    Patterson and Mohler discussed “Reaching Today’s World Through Differing Views of Election” in two breakout sessions of the Southern Baptist Convention Pastor’s Conference June 11. Both sessions, in a cavernous space occupying three hotel ballrooms, drew standing-room-only crowds.
    Mohler, a self-described Calvinist and president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky., and Patterson, president of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas, gently sparred while emphasizing their mutual love and respect for each other.
    Patterson said he didn’t like the “flawed logic” that if one isn’t a Calvinist, he or she must be an Arminian, insisting, “I am neither.”
    The claim that non-Calvinists don’t accept the doctrines of grace or the sovereignty of God also is flawed, Patterson said.
    Patterson listed several reasons why he is not “a Dortist Calvinist,” referring to the Synod of Dort in 1618-19. The synod produced five cardinal tenets of Calvinism -- total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace and perseverance of the saints.
    “I do not find in Scripture any case for irresistible grace,” Patterson said, arguing salvation would be coercive if humans have no choice and citing Scriptures that suggest humans have the ability to reject God.
    Likewise, Patterson said he could find no biblical support for a belief in limited atonement, citing multiple texts supporting a belief that Christ died for all and God wants all people to be saved.
    Patterson quoted Scriptures that he said link predestination to divine foreknowledge, indicating that God knows in advance who will accept Christ but does not predestine some to salvation and some to condemnation. That would put God in the position of creating people just so he could condemn them, Patterson said.
    “I believe too often Calvinism is the death-knell for evangelism for many people,” Patterson said. He acknowledged that many Calvinists -- including Mohler -- remain evangelistic, and said, “It is my conviction that as an evangelist for Christ, we are compelled to persuade men.”
    Mohler affirmed, “I believe in all five points of Calvinism,” before offering his interpretations of several points.
    Mohler said he prefers to speak of “effectual calling” rather than “irresistible grace.” God’s effectual calling does not draw someone to Christ against his will, but once the work of salvation begins, one cannot resist, he explained.
    “We all believe in limited atonement,” Mohler said. “The question is by whom. I do believe before the creation of the world, God determined to save sinners who would come to accept Christ through the electing purpose of God.”
    But, Mohler said, “God is a choosing God.” God chose Israel as a special people and has called out the church, he added.
    Mohler said every person attending was probably a Calvinist to some degree. Belief in inerrancy, substitutionary atonement, divine omniscience and the perseverance of those who accept Christ all owe something to Calvinism, he said.
    Widespread belief in world missions “is more recent history” for Calvinists, Mohler said.
    “What binds us together is that we both believe in a ‘well-met offer’ of the gospel -- that when we share the gospel with someone, that he or she can believe and be saved.”
    People who follow “the heresy of hyper-Calvinism,” who don’t believe in evangelism, are now few in number, Mohler insisted. Their churches, if found, would be very small, he said.
    “A vital hyper-Calvinism movement is a living oxymoron,” Mohler said. “I don’t believe anyone who appeals to Christ will be denied.”
    “We must be as eager as the apostle Paul to persuade others to follow Christ, knowing that only God can effectually bring about the internal call,” Mohler concluded. “We do not know who is elect; we just know there are sinners in need of the gospel, and we believe that God does save sinners.”
     
  14. LeBuick

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    What does this mean, "hyper-Calvinism?"

    Does it appear Mohler had a "soft" Calvin view by the end?
     
  15. Baptist_Pastor/Theologian

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    There ain't nothing pink about Dr. Patterson. The man has a Noah size collection of exotic beasts hanging on his walls and posted throuhout his office and home.:laugh:
     
  16. npetreley

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    One of these days I'm going to buy one of those Christmas reindeer made out of twisted branches, cut off the head, mount it, and put it on the wall.
     
  17. Baptist_Pastor/Theologian

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    Be sure and shoot it first so you can claim a legitimate kill...:laugh:
     
  18. El_Guero

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    Not sure about that

    Sure doesn't sound like the Calvin's calvinism that I remember.

     
  19. 2BHizown

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    [​IMG]A. W. Tozer (1897-1963) - <A href="http://www.propadeutic.com/faith/authors/g.html#gospel1">Arminian fundamentalist pastor in the Christian and Missionary Alliance, which grew out of the late-19th-century Holiness movement. As a Holiness preacher, he presented a two-tiered view of salvation that distinguished between true committed disciples and mere converts. A profound and uncompromising theologian whose books are loved by Christians of most all conservative perspectives. Titles: The Attributes of God: A Journey into the Father's Heart; How to Be Filled with the Holy Spirit; I Call It Heresy; The Knowledge of the Holy; The Pursuit of God; Who Put Jesus on the Cross?.
    http://www.propadeutic.com/faith/authors/nonref.html
     
    #19 2BHizown, Aug 11, 2006
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  20. Rippon

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    Hi 2BH . I like that Tozer photo . I recently saw a Tozer picture here in S.K. that I had never seen before . His writings were certainly thought-provoking . Dr. Lloyd-Jones was responsible for getting his works published in the UK . Later both men met . It is detailed in Murray's bio of L-J .

    My father is from a Plymouth Brethren background . His library is filled with authors with initials : H.A.I. , J.N.D. C.H.M. etc. But my father has a special place for Tozer . He has about a dozen of his books . Years ago I gave him some of Tozer's messages on tape .

    Some say AWT was a Calminian . I really do believe he was an Arminian despite his reservations about the weak theology of his era . Gordon Clark takes him to task in a book or two . Overall I respect AWT while realizing he is not really a theologian as such . The other AW -- AW Pink , is certainly in that category though . If folks think AWT was hard medicine -- they need to take some doses of AW Pink .
     
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