Arminius opinion of Calvin, a must read!

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Pete Richert, Apr 16, 2003.

  1. Pete Richert

    Pete Richert
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    Here is a link where Spurgeon discuess his favorite commentators and he only has praise for John Calvin. The most suprising thing though, is when he quotes Arminius himself.

    Arminius wrote:
    Spurgeon on commentaries
     
  2. Frogman

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    Thanks for the link, it provided the source for something I previously mentioned and shows the "unbias" of John Calvin in his comments upon scripture.

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
  3. ScottEmerson

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    Tell you what, Pete. Do some research and find out when Arminius said this. Examine his history and find out who he initially learned from at the University of Geneva. Find out what happened as he began writing his systemic theology.

    If we are going to attack Hunt's scholarship, why do we not attack Spurgeon's as well, for ripping Arminius' quote out of its rightful historical context?
     
  4. Pete Richert

    Pete Richert
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    Scott,

    Seddle down, I wasn't making this a pro-calvinist statement. I just thought it was interesting. I think we can both agree that what John Calvin wrote, or what Arminius thought of that, or what Spurgeon thought of John Calvin or Arminius, has no final authority until whether Calvinism is true, but only the Bible itself.

    Anyway, I don't think it takes away from Arminius position whether or not he thought Calvin was an honest scholoar with the text. Spurgeon himself praises Adam Clarke and even John Wesly though he disagrees so much with their Arminism. It just shows that both Spurgeon and Arminius were secure with their positions, and humble enough to see the piety and hard work and even value of those who may disagree with him. This is no longer allowed in fundlemental circles.
     
  5. ScottEmerson

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    From the link you posted, Spurgeon calls Arminius the great enemy. It is fairly clear from that what Spurgeon thinks of the guy.

    It's still faulty scholarship.
     
  6. KenH

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    Say what, Scott. Is this the quote: "Here is the opinion of one who is looked upon as his great enemy, namely, Arminius:"

    Spurgeon didn't call Arminius "the great enemy". Talk about someone reading his bias into another person's statement - that you did Scott - and big time. :rolleyes:

    Clearly, he is talking about how theologians in general look at Calvin and Arminius as on pretty near opposite sides of the theological spectrum and, therefore, enemies in that perspective.
     
  7. Pete Richert

    Pete Richert
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    I got to go with Ken on this one Scott. Spurgeon is not calling him the great enemy but is refering to how he is considered by others.
     
  8. ScottEmerson

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    Take it for what you will. He doesn't state his own feelings of the guy, so we'll let his words here speak for themselves.

    "Here is the opinion of one who is often looked upon as his great enemy, although erroneously so, namely, Arminius."

    He should have said something to this effect.
     
  9. KenH

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    You are nitpicking, Scott, just because you disagree with Charles Haddon Spurgeon on theological issues.

    Your prejudice is showing, Scott. [​IMG]
     
  10. William C

    William C
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    I'm an Arminian and I have encouraged many people even on this post to read Calvin's Institutes and his commentaries. He has some great work, there is no denying that fact.

    I think this quote from Arminius actually strengthens Arminius' crediablity as one who was not so blinded by his bias that he wasn't able to appreciate Calvin's work as a whole. His disagreements of Calvin's soteriological points on the issues of predestination were formed not from his preconcieved biases but from the objective study of God's word, something I believe we should all try. We have seen on this board that some disagree with others simply because they are on the otherside of the issue, without really even considering the validity of their statements. I have quoted Calvin or simply expounded on something from his teachings and have had Calvinists on this board argue with me simply because it was me making the argument. If Larry or one of the other Calvinists on this board had wrote the exact same thing, they wouldn't have said a thing. We all have a tendency to just be disagreeable with everything that our opponents say. That can be a weakness when we should be striving for objectivity.
     
  11. tyndale1946

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    First of all Brother Bill... I for one don't practice that tactic and will let scripture speak for itself... My interpretation of the TULIP is somewhat different than some as is yours. Would one jump on any wagon to agree with the brethren or the side in question without believing it themselves?

    I stand on various doctrinal issues because over years of study I've come to believe those doctrinal issues are true. I worship with a people called Primitive Baptist because they hold to the doctrinal issues and practices I believe.

    Are we saying just because I'm of the Calvinist brethren I agree with all that the Calvinist say... I don't agree with all that the Calvinists say... I don't agree with all that the Arminians say either... One has to be true to what the scriptures say and debate the validity of that truth.

    Do you agree with everything your brethren say in your church?... I don't in mine... Why do you think it would be any different here on the board unless your church has a congregation of yes men.

    I personally don't feel that the brethren on here agree or disagree according to the label they claim and wear. I disagreed with Brother Dallas many times but him and I are still christian brothers and friends even though we disagree... Is every brother going to agree with every point made by every brother here? [​IMG] ... What Baptist Board are you on Brother Bill? :confused:

    Calvinist disagree with Calvinist and Arminians disagree with Arminians and vice versa... And Primitive Baptist sometimes disagrees with them all... Like I've said many times on here to each his own [​IMG] ... Brother Glen [​IMG] & [​IMG] Sister Charlotte [​IMG]
     
  12. William C

    William C
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    Glen, I have highlighted the word you obviously missed from my previous post.
     
  13. Frogman

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    I didn't know you could be a Baptist except you were disagreeable :D :( Isn't liberty of conscience worth something?

    If I agreed with all that everyone said, would this mean that when I am with Calvinists I agree with Calvinists and when with Arminians I agree with Arminians, I know some who do this and I pray the Lord would close my mouth if I fall into it and never see my error. We cannot, because of the flesh see all things in perfection now, but this is not to say that the major things in scripture cannot be discerned truthfully.

    Again, what I respect is for someone to tell me straight up what they believe, what they can and cannot take, we here, nor in our churches can never grow in Grace by skirting the issues just because they may be controversial.

    I like the old addage I have been reading from among the old Primitive Baptist that it is not truth that divides and causes pain, but it is error and it is error not dealt with that causes the greatest division when it does come to a head. (this is a paraphrase of several different writers), I repeat it here because I am in agreement. I believe many have veered from the old path because the people have cried the doctrines are too hard, I believe we are taught this by Jesus in John Ch. 6. It is when I am most agreeable with all that I read that I have no conviction of my own, then it is when I am able to be blown about by every wind of doctrine. The same is true of those who would be agreeable with me, then would be agreeable with 'the other' side in my absence these are they that worry me, not those who know what they believe and stand on it. I have seen some who are 'the most hard' in the old paths, only to be at other places with them and see that they will also Amen an unscriptural statement just as they will one grounded upon scripture [​IMG] We know that if one is true, the other cannot be, but we try to make things agreeable to men, this is our error, not Christ's.

    At the same time, sincerety is not an excuse for error.

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     

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