The following is a response to Van’s thread, that was closed, as I was typing my first response. Hello Van and Welcome. Nice thread and as I read the first two responses, something came to mind. Those who follow Calvin, are forced to “defend Calvinism”. I can only remember defending the Gospel and God’s Word, but I could never bring myself to defend, any “man’s” idea. -------------------------------------------------- Now I know, that some Calvinists will say that they are not following Calvin, but simply agreeing with him and the way he looks at the Bible. I am still trying to figure out how/why, truly born again Christians, can see the same subject(salvation), so differently. It’s almost as if a Calvinists, applies an artificial profoundness to their study of God’s Word. I, like most Christians, see the value in a “deep study” of the Bible, but for me a deep study means, dissecting and studying every word of a passage and it’s relation to the rest of the Bible.(Rightly dividing the Word of truth) But for a Calvinist, deep study means to delve deep into the mind of God, to try and understand things that can not be nailed down in Scripture. For instance, “the order of salvation”...... Foreknowledge, Predestination, Election, Regeneration, Evangelism, Faith, Conversion, Perseverance, Repentance, Justification, Sanctification, Glorification. The only parts of this list, that a Christian needs to understand are, Faith, Conversion, Justification, Sanctification, Glorification. To go any “deeper” than this, is counterproductive, because we start second guessing God. Thank you for your thought provoking thread.